Sailing vessel and RORO ship on collision courses - what do you think of the outcome?

[Znightflyer]

Pecking order of vessels while underway

The Navigational Rules of the Road establishes a "pecking order" between different types of vessels. A vessel higher than you on the list is considered to be the ""stand-on" vessel in a collision situation; vessels below you are considered to be the "give-way" vessel. The list, in order of decreasing rights:

Not Under Command (NUC)

Restricted in Ability to Maneuver (RAM)

Constrained by Draft (CBD)

Fishing Vessel

Sailing Vessel

Power Driven Vessel

Seaplane

h) The term “vessel constrained by her draft” means a power-driven vessel which, because of her draft in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water is severely restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following.

[requiem]

Quite the overnight influx of comments! All of these contained significant errors about what the Rules require. I'm not saying that to be mean, it's simply how things are. I strongly suggest taking a look at the actual Rules to figure out what you got wrong.

You can use the older PDF here since it has nice large text and is very easier on the eyes, or the amalgamated version here which more densely packed but also hyperlinks terms to their definitions. For these purposes either are fine, and I suggest particular attention to Rules 3, 8, 9, and 17.

Originally Posted by Walkabout4242

Right of way in reality.... is.

Originally Posted by 4runner

Any recreational skipper that doesn’t alter course

Originally Posted by RoseLoper48

The right of way rules do not specify that a sailboat has right of way over a power boat.

Originally Posted by Richbayle

"Here lies the body of Harold Day, who insisted upon his right of way"

Originally Posted by smokey73

just to press the issue of who is the stand on vessel (no such thing as right of way in COLREGS).

Originally Posted by GoinSumWare

you may be in the right technically and legally, but you will be dead all the same.

Originally Posted by Sailor_Jeff

I look forward to reading the answers.

A few hints: There isn't any "recreational vs commercial" distinction. "Restricted Ability to Maneuver" is a very specific and limited case. "Insisting" or "pressing the issue" violates the steering and sailing rules. There is no "right of way", and even if there was, it doesn't mean what you think it does.

[rhubstuff]

The OP does not say where this occurred, but it is probable that the ship had slowed to maneuvering speed (9 kts.) because their sea speed is probably more like 15-20 kts. So I am assuming that the ship was inbound to a nearby port. Ships of that size like to make long approaches to port entrances so as to judge tide and wind effects. (Car carriers especially so.) They were, in aviation terms, "on final approach" and if they had turned to avoid the OP they would have had to reset their approach course. Sure, its doable, but to force them to do it just because you are the stand-on vessel is just pushy and unnecessary. If this had happened on any of the ships I sailed on, we would have had a few nasty words for the sailboat. Things look a LOT different from the bridge of a large ship close to land. I would have simply trimmed the sheets a bit and gone astern of them as soon as I knew there was a risk of collision. Much easier for everyone's nerves, and simply the polite thing to do.

[DennisRyan]

YOU care more about your boat than any other captain. I would have taken control of the situation - gotten on my VHF and called the other ship - "My instruments calculate a CPA of zero. I will now reduce speed to increase the CPA". I then would have reduced my speed to steerage speed till I was comfortable with the CPA.

[Pete Chambliss]

Other than COLREGS being omnipotent ( which perhaps you should read) common sense sayings also apply like
The rule of gross tonnage
Steel stronger than fiberglass
A collision at sea can ruin your entire day!
In the story of David and Goliath...David was lucky!
Happy sails!

[GarryD]

Not included in the COLREGS but worth considering:


"Plastic gives way to steel"

[jmcdevittcaptain@aol.com]

Really! I too am just rolling my eyes... So sorry your feelings were hurt.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

It's frightening that there are enough ignorant and/or completey false posts regarding the COLREGS to justify this having image on each page of this thread.

[Sailor_Jeff]

Excerpt from USCG website:

Sailboats under sail generally have right of way over most recreational powerboats, because sailboats are assumed to have more restricted maneuverability than powerboats (for example, a sailboat cannot turn and sail straight into the wind to avoid a collision). But by the same principle, sailboats must give way to any boat with less maneuverability.

[Ike]

27 pages? I stopped reading at about page 16. Too many egos involved.
I have been boating and sailing in small boats (and a few large) since I was a child. I am a retired US Coast Guard Officer. I was taught the old rules when I was a kid before the COLREGS (they used right of way) and the inland rules. Then along came the COLREGS. and the Inland rules were changed somewhat to conform. There are still some differences. Learned those (had to in Officer training) I am now 76 and most of my boating is confined to lakes. But in all that time I have never forgotten a little ditty I was taught way back when.

"He was right, dead right, as he sailed along, but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong. "


i've heard various versions of it over the years: The one I remember is it was the epitaph on someone's tombstone. But regardless of where it came from, it's stood me in good stead over almost 70 years on the water. And if I forget it, my first mate (my wife) will surely remind me.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Jeff

Excerpt from USCG website:

Sailboats under sail generally have right of way over most recreational powerboats, because sailboats are assumed to have more restricted maneuverability than powerboats (for example, a sailboat cannot turn and sail straight into the wind to avoid a collision). But by the same principle, sailboats must give way to any boat with less maneuverability.

Can you post the link please?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Ike

"He was right, dead right, as he sailed along, but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong. "

If he died by collision, then he was wrong, not right. He failed in the application of the rules, so what is this little ditty supposed to mean?

[MVNightWatch]

“You chose to force the issue. Now you chose to grandstand about how you were wronged. While you do that, we roll our eyes.“

My friend states the truth a little harsher than I would have put it. But it is still the truth. At 5 miles away you could have solved a problem that never would’ve existed but for your continued course. There can be no ego at sea. I can honestly say that “I am the stand on vessel“ would never have occurred to me. The thought in my mind when seeing 0.0 clearance would have been “which way do I turn to get away from this problem?”

The NightWatch’s hull speed is 5 1/2 kn. I don’t ever try to win any battles. I think like the rabbit, not the wolf.

The captains job is to bring the boat safely to port, so the crew can easily step off with the line in their hand. And an enjoyable time will be had by all.

[john manning]

FxyKty the OP is entirely in the right here. Those defending the RORO helmsman have lost the plot.

Avoiding collisions is about following the rules so every action is predictable.

Commercial vessel helmsmen who think might is right should get another job.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by RoseLoper48

The right of way rules do not specify that a sailboat has right of way over a power boat. It does say that the least maneuverable boat has the right of way. In this case you had early opportunity to alter course to avoid a collision. The first right of way rule says to avoid collision.

So many false statements in one short post