paper vs electronic charts

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wellin

Even with paper charts, i don't think most people will verify position without using the GPS. So if the electronics fail and its cloudy or foggy....??? No distinctive shoreline in sight. How do you use paper charts. Compass is useless if your going backwards on the current.

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A course in navigation would answer these questions for you. Why, dead reckoning, of course, if out of sight of land. Then once you make landfall, you can make a very precise position with a three point fix. You do have a hand-bearing compass, don't you? If you have this plus paper charts, you can manage without GPS, which many of us did for decades before GPS became generally available. These skills have not lost their relevance, in my opinion.

[wellin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A course in navigation would answer these questions for you. Why, dead reckoning, of course, if out of sight of land. Then once you make landfall, you can make a very precise position with a three point fix. You do have a hand-bearing compass, don't you? If you have this plus paper charts, you can manage without GPS, which many of us did for decades before GPS became generally available. These skills have not lost their relevance, in my opinion.

Oh i don't need the question answered for me. I said "most people". I understand the need in addition to the chart is a compass and a good clock or watch. I have flown across the US in a plane with no electrical system not even a starter and way before handheld GPS. Just a chart afixed to my knee. I feel very comfortgable with paper and would never leave port without 3 gps units, just for backup

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[charliehows]

heres how i think about this; If I'm going somewhere i haven't been, i get pretty excited just buying the relevant chart, i pore over it in the planning stages and mark up routes and bearings, highlight hazards etc. Its a lot of fun for me - how often do you get to do this stuff? While im travelling i mark up as i go cos i want to be able to look at that chart for years and enjoy the trip as many times over as i care to. My favourites usually end up on the wall. When did anyone EVER frame a bloody GPS and put it on their wall?

[charliehows]

case in point;

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wellin

Oh i don't need the question answered for me. I said "most people". I understand the need in addition to the chart is a compass and a good clock or watch. I have flown across the US in a plane with no electrical system not even a starter and way before handheld GPS. Just a chart afixed to my knee. I feel very comfortgable with paper and would never leave port without 3 gps units, just for backup

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Cool!

[s/v Beth]

I have never framed a chart and put it on the wall. I have noticed red lobster has charts on the wall, that and wierd pictures of old marinas. Maybe I don't want my boat to look like red lobster. I have put a big screen TV on the wall. And people seem to stare at that for a long time.

[wellin]

I have never put an old one on the wall just new. But it is awsome to find an old chart that has a pencil line on it. Always takes me back to the trip and makes me smile. Same thing looking back at fuel/time notes i kept on trips.

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[BobnCamie]

The subject goes on and on. Paper is not too expensive. Priced a chart plotter lately? I(we) like redundancy, paper is the 4th back up. Also works to start camp fires when done with them. I know, good enough for Magellan, good enough for me. I really want to have a dram or 4 of rum with Mark someday. Should be lots of fun. I'll even buy the first 2-3.......or.... Bob

[captain58sailin]

I use all the tools in the box available. Including my head.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by wellin

I have never put an old one on the wall just new. But it is awsome to find an old chart that has a pencil line on it. Always takes me back to the trip and makes me smile. Same thing looking back at fuel/time notes i kept on trips.

I upload the routes from the gps to Google maps/earth.
Great being able to zoom right in to a corner of and anchorage or out to the Atlantic ocean while siting in the bar with some friends. Takes me back and makes me smile. who cares what it is if it makes you smile

As for charts a decent cruising guide has chartlets of anywhere you will take a boat, plus a small scale of the general area who needs more.


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[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's a question of priorities, I guess. I have probably 100 charts on board, if not a couple of hundred, and have rarely been anywhere I didn't have paper for. In fact, last summer, I sailed off the edge of the world (that is, off the edge of my Navico Platinum+ chart) into the mare incognito of the Bay of Biscay, with nothing but paper for several days before DHL caught up with me with the other Navico chart

I am personally not very comfortable without both paper and electronic.

Yea, it is a matter of priorities. When I sailed mostly in the Pacific Northwest I always had a set of paper charts with me. In the last 3 years I've sailed from the Canadian Pacific side to the Canadian Atlantic side. This would require charts for Pacific Canada, all of the US West coast charts, Mexico Charts, Central America charts, Caribbean charts, Bahamas charts, all US east coast charts and Canadian maritime charts to create a complete paper set. I'd guess that is at least 3 or 4 hundred charts. Maybe us$2k to 5k depending on how you buy them. That's a ton of cash for a cruiser. If I lost my e-charting ability I do not need a full set of charts. I don't need to get into every harbor or junk hole. I just need to get to a reasonable, safe anchorage or harbor. The info to do that I keep with me.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I'd guess that is at least 3 or 4 hundred charts. Maybe us$2k to 5k depending on how you buy them. That's a ton of cash for a cruiser.

Detailed Up to date paper charts are practical for people sailing over a limited cruising ground.
They become very expensive for those cruising long distances. This is not a new problem and sailors on a realistic budget in the past have made do with a limited number of less detailed paper charts. Often swapped, photocopied and frequently considerably out of date.

What has changed is electronic charts have become very inexpensive (the whole of Europe for $60). So it practical to carry large scale, up to date electronic maps that can even cover those places that you may divert to if problems occur, or plans change. Multiple copies and maps from different companies are readily affordable.
This is safer in my view than the poor detail from small scale paper charts that were relied on when I started cruising.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by BobnCamie

The subject goes on and on. Paper is not too expensive. Priced a chart plotter lately? I(we) like redundancy, paper is the 4th back up. Also works to start camp fires when done with them. I know, good enough for Magellan, good enough for me. I really want to have a dram or 4 of rum with Mark someday. Should be lots of fun. I'll even buy the first 2-3.......or.... Bob

At €30-40 euros a chart , a hundred charts buys me a damm fine plotter. A 100 charts wouldnt get me anywhere in the med

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Canibul

you're being facetious, right? If not...I would suggest you start with some history.

electronic chart media are pretty new. There are a few centuries of people sailing around the world, in and out of busy harbours, crossing oceans...finding islands...you know..things like that.

Did you ever use a road map in an automobile before buying the TomTom or Garmin for the dash?

How did you ever do that with 0 gig of RAM?

A map works in a car because you have visual clues to tell you where you are.

A chart paper or otherwise isn't a lot of use if you don't know where you are. Loads of sailors have got lost that still had charts.

The irony is that most people using paper charts ate doing electronic location. Then they go on about lightening as if the plotter is the only thing to fail

Sailors spent Years exploring uncharted areas without getting lost , why because they had location techniques. Location is far more useful then charts at sea.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Detailed Up to date paper charts are practical for people sailing over a limited cruising ground.
They become very expensive for those cruising long distances. This is not a new problem and sailors on a realistic budget in the past have made do with a limited number of less detailed paper charts. Often swapped, photocopied and frequently considerably out of date.

What has changed is electronic charts have become very inexpensive (the whole of Europe for $60). So it practical to carry large scale, up to date electronic maps that can even cover those places that you may divert to if problems occur, or plans change. Multiple copies and maps from different companies are readily affordable.
This is safer in my view than the poor detail from small scale paper charts that were relied on when I started cruising.

Give that man a bun, right first time and far more eloquent then my post which was trying to say the same thing.