Paper Charts or Just Electronic

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

It is next to impossible for a hand held GPS or tablet to be damaged by a lightning strike on the boat. They are well designed against such damage because they have to meet strict regulatory emission limits. The same design features that prevent radio emissions also protect handhelds against lightning.
.....

I’m dubious. What’s your source for this opinion?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Officially certified paper charts are expensive compared to our budget and getting more so. If you know of cheap official printed chart sources with pricing then a thread should be started. Many people, including me, would be grateful for such a listing.

I think edexter helped us out there:
Home - NOAA Charts
$21 seems reasonable to me to replace a chart I have that is a little too marked up and coffee stained
others may think it is a waste of $

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I’m dubious. What’s your source for this opinion?

I designed electronics for a living past 40 years. I have never heard of a case where handheld GPS died from nearby lightning strike. These units are extremely well shielded so they can comply with FCC and IEC RF radiation interference standards. The microwave frequency that GPS uses is much much higher than the frequencies generated by lightning. If the handheld is not connected to boat power it is next to impossible for a nearby magnetic pulse from lightning to kill them.

And an oven is a terrible faraday shield. I can prove it and so can you. Put a handheld VHF in the oven with volume turned all the way up. Try to get a boat neighbor to talk to it from their ship’s VHF. Bet you a coke the handheld will repeat their voice from inside the oven.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I designed electronics for a living past 40 years. I have never heard of a case where handheld GPS died from nearby lightning strike. These units are extremely well shielded so they can comply with FCC and IEC RF radiation interference standards. The microwave frequency that GPS uses is much much higher than the frequencies generated by lightning. If the handheld is not connected to boat power it is next to impossible for a nearby magnetic pulse from lightning to kill them.

And an oven is a terrible faraday shield. I can prove it and so can you. Put a handheld VHF in the oven with volume turned all the way up. Try to get a boat neighbor to talk to it from their ship’s VHF. Bet you a coke the handheld will repeat their voice from inside the oven.

Anecdotal then.

[barnakiel]

I do not think there is any 'clinging to'.


Teak decks is clinging to. Long keels. SSB radios. Cotton canvass too. An yet, these are noble parts of our sailing tradition, and well worth cultivation (even though all are things of the past!).



Is having a liferaft 'clinging to'? Well, you know, why have a primitive, rubber water toy inside a seaworthy proper boat.



A paper chart and sextant will not save an ignorant navigator, but sure will help a skilled one. As will do, say, a compass (a magnetic one).


Or have you gotten rid of your compasses too? NOOOOOO? Well, you should - for they are not required once you have a gps. You know, passé - just like paper charts, dividers, sextants ...


I would opt otherwise, maybe, if things like kaput Loran were still around (or Decca). The point is, they are not. So the only secondary method, offshore, is chart, compass and sextant. The sun is still there, if one cares to take their eyes off the Netflix screen fitted in the bridgedeck.



Even the way some of us tend to use 'gps' shows how very far from reality check we are. For gps is no longer the only thing up there. There are beidou, glonass and galileo. So, as a minimum, we could have onboard (OK, multiple) devices that can use any of the systems. Actually, few skippers know the systems are alive, and few have devices that can take advantage of all constellations.


So, in my eyes, there is no 'clinging to' involved. I might have better sat nav skills than many other skippers, yet I still have paper charts and compasses and YES dividers too onboard. Except that I know how to use all of the toys, much as many hardline gps-only (again!) proponents will be completely lost plotting a plain DR / set / drift line.


So maybe it is not about this or that technology we deploy as much as it is about certain skills we have and/or do not have.


Cheers,
b.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

For gps is no longer the only thing up there. There are beidou, glonass and galileo. So, as a minimum, we could have onboard (OK, multiple) devices that can use any of the systems. Actually, few skippers know the systems are alive, and few have devices that can take advantage of all constellations.

For those who find such redundancy comforting, the latest (basic) iPad uses GPS & GLONASS, whereas the latest iPad Air, Mini & Pro use GPS, GLONASS, Galileo & QZSS. Only the models which have WiFi and cellular have built-in sat receivers. Not sure about Android models.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Exile

For those who find such redundancy comforting, the latest (basic) iPad uses GPS & GLONASS, whereas the latest iPad Air, Mini & Pro use GPS, GLONASS, Galileo & QZSS. Only the models which have WiFi and cellular have built-in sat receivers. Not sure about Android models.

The majority of current Android devices contain multi-GNSS receivers which can use all current satellites.



Here's a quote from 3 years ago:


https://www.geospatialworld.net/blog...eceivers-norm/

The emergence of GNSS receivers supporting mult-constellations has kept steady pace with the increasing number of GNSS satellites in the sky in the past decade. With advancements in newer GNSS constellations, two-thirds of all GNSS chipsets and modules currently on the market support multiple constellations and within the next few years 100% of all new devices are expected to so. A new study by the European GNSS Agency (GSA) reveals that the market continues to develop towards fully flexible, multi-constellation GNSS receivers for the mass market and high accuracy professional receivers, with nearly 30% already capable of using the four available global constellations.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by StuM

The majority of current Android devices contain multi-GNSS receivers which can use all current satellites.



]

And they are a fraction of the cost.

They have these other remarkable inventions in them as well called an SD card slot.
Expandable storage, something apple phanboyz can only dream of.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Let me caution everyone about depth sounders. If power runs out your depth sounder will stop working. The only absolutely reliable way to measure depth is with a lead line and we should all carry one and practice frequently, especially in narrow harbor entrances with cross wind and busy traffic. Take one reading per minute (while steering the boat), plot it on the paper chart and later share it with OpenCPN users who can benefit from your hard work.

Really?
A lead line?
And dicking around with it in a busy harbour entrance?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Why not simply have redundancy.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Really?
A lead line?
And dicking around with it in a busy harbour entrance?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Why not simply have redundancy.

The post was meant as sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek, etc . . . .

[SV Windrush II]

I am amazed that people would suggest replacing the compass with a GPS, how would you stay on heading watching a GPS? The position on the screen is delayed, you would have the sever case of the drunken sailor syndrome. I have my GPS on with the tracking everywhere I go, but when I need to stay on a heading I am using my compass.

[Training Wheels]

Funny, I rarely take the cover off our compass. The chart plotter tells me CMG. I generally steer to that, if I’m on a rhumbline. Usually, we’re steering to the wind, which I want to know our CMG.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SV Windrush II

I am amazed that people would suggest replacing the compass with a GPS, how would you stay on heading watching a GPS? The position on the screen is delayed, you would have the sever case of the drunken sailor syndrome. I have my GPS on with the tracking everywhere I go, but when I need to stay on a heading I am using my compass.

Who suggested replacing a compass with a GPS?

[SV Windrush II]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Funny, I rarely take the cover off our compass. The chart plotter tells me CMG. I generally steer to that, if I’m on a rhumbline. Usually, we’re steering to the wind, which I want to know our CMG.

I am more referring to longer ocean passages when I need to stay on a heading. The GPS may be showing CMG, but the actual heading is several seconds delayed. The compass is showing real time heading so that I can keep the boat pointed. It makes a big difference especially in a big swell or heavy weather when the boat is getting knocked around a bit.

I suppose if I’m on Autopilot then it is irrelevant but I’m still checking my compass to make sure I’m on the correct heading. Also when I have a crew on watch, or they are on the helm, I give them the corrected heading and they are instructed to keep course using the compass.

I once had a crew that always wanted to look at the GPS for keeping the boat on course but they were steering like drunken sailors, always making the boat wonder all over the place because of the delayed GPS signal

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by StuM

Who suggested replacing a compass with a GPS?

Two GPS salesmen ( different companies) at the Melbourne Boat Show about 20 years ago suggested it to me when I was trying to buy a new compass.......... I took my business elsewhere...