Paper Charts or Just Electronic

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Misplot a fix or a bearing line while using your dividers or parallel rules.

... which of course can be done with a GPS fix (if that's all ya got)! Measure twice, er...maybe thrice for me, draw once!
think I got that dyschartgpsia thing

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Misplot a fix or a bearing line while using your dividers or parallel rules.

I would have called that misuse of dividers or parallel rules.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Don C L

So in this case I am betting he is relying on radar and depth sounder far more than a chartplotter, no?

Perhaps but radar doesn’t see reefs or coral bommies and his sounder sees what’s under the boat and not directly ahead of it. Neither instills much confidence in a safe passage. The image I posted shows a “sea” of underwater obstacles that are invisible to all the aids, including a plotter.

In heavily coral places like Fiji and Chagos (Indian Ocean), scattered bommies within a coral ring are indicated as “numerous coral heads” on paper and plotter charts. I’m guessing the charts for the Cooks are no different.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

This is why I and many others prefer the charting system that essentially allows us to make my own satellite derived charts.

Just a quick question about this.....what would (is) the problem with this practice in somewhere like the Kimberleys for instance??

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Just a quick question about this.....what would (is) the problem with this practice in somewhere like the Kimberleys for instance??

You'd need to have it done before you went into "no data" land?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Just a quick question about this.....what would (is) the problem with this practice in somewhere like the Kimberleys for instance??

You download all data before you leave reception. I download the places I'm going to and everything in between or close by so I have options.

Paper just can't compete with this sort of technology, not even close. Combine this with a couple of different nav programs plus radar and its incredibly comprehensive, your just not guessing at all.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

You'd need to have it done before you went into "no data" land?

Originally Posted by daletournier

You download all data before you leave reception. I download the places I'm going to and everything in between or close by so I have options.

Paper just can't compete with this sort of technology, not even close. Combine this with a couple of different nav programs plus radar and its incredibly comprehensive, your just not guessing at all.

Both wrong, try again..........

[conachair]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Paper just can't compete with this sort of technology, not even close. Combine this with a couple of different nav programs plus radar and its incredibly comprehensive, your just not guessing at all.

And with sasplanet you can jump between different sources of satellite images and navionics/cmaps to check if the datums all match up. Then save as mbtiles to use in opencpn. Absolute gold dust for cruisers compared to days gone by when just getting any charts for a lot of areas could be tricky, often digging through the already photocopied many times pile of black and white A3 in the back street copy shop.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Both wrong, try again.......... [emoji2]

Hard to take you seriously with a comment like that, a guy stuck in his ways unable to change and learn it would seem.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hard to take you seriously with a comment like that, a guy stuck in his ways unable to change and learn it would seem.

Not stuck in my ways at all mate! it's a very simple, and serious question, i've repeatedly stated that i have no problem with using electronics, and i have certainly never stated that sat images shouldn't be used, so save the accusations!

Two boats came to grief in the Kimberleys using sat images, one wrecked and the other managed to stop the ingress and survived.....so seriously this time, try again and really put your mind to why using a sat image in the Kimberleys could cause the above to occur, there's a reason i specifically said the Kimberleys....

[Simi 60]

Water clarity
Tides

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Not stuck in my ways at all mate! it's a very simple, and serious question, i've repeatedly stated that i have no problem with using electronics, and i have certainly never stated that sat images shouldn't be used, so save the accusations!

Two boats came to grief in the Kimberleys using sat images, one wrecked and the other managed to stop the ingress and survived.....so seriously this time, try again and really put your mind to why using a sat image in the Kimberleys could cause the above to occur, there's a reason i specifically said the Kimberleys....

And mate! I've been in places that if I followed or relied on only the charts I'd be wrecked in places you've never heard of. I've been in conditions that I couldn't leave the helm to head downstairs and look at the paper chart let alone have it in the cockpit.

Sat nav is a tool , one of many that I use that enables me to navigate safely, it is game changing. As pointed by out some of these charts are 200 years old.

Btw ,I carry paper, always have and am happy to say it's getting very close to obsolete, few out here are actually using papercharters anymore.

Your arrogant attitude is the issue here, not paper or satellite.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Water clarity
Tides

You got it

I lived and worked in the Kimberleys from 94' to 01', pearling, fishing and chartering and when the tide gets a giddy up you cannot see a thing, the amount of mud that gets moved around there is phenomenal, you can have a fish hooked and look over the side and not see a thing until a foot from the surface, on the pearl farms diving in zero visibility was the norm not the exception...

A satellite does not know when the tides are spring, neap, high or low when it records the image, and neither does the individual that downloads it, and it certainly can't record an clear image of the sea bed through 5m of chocolate colored water, let alone the 10m to 12m's that the tides get to...

This is why the 2 boats i mentioned hit bricks, the sat images did not show anything where they hit, this is why i picked the Kimberleys....

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Your arrogant attitude is the issue here, not paper or satellite.

So i post "Both wrong, try again" with a no harm there, thats what the smilie means?

...then you accuse me of been "a guy stuck in his ways unable to change and learn"

.... which on this subject i have never stated, not once!

and when i retort your accusations you come back with "Your arrogant attitude is the issue here, not paper or satellite."

Make your mind up sport....

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

So i post "Both wrong, try again" with a [emoji2] no harm there, thats what the smilie means?

...then you accuse me of been "a guy stuck in his ways unable to change and learn"

.... which on this subject i have never stated, not once!

and when i retort your accusations you come back with "Your arrogant attitude is the issue here, not paper or satellite."

Make your mind up sport.... [emoji3]

It started with your earlier sernon:

If people don't want or are incapable of safely using paper charts then don't, i don't care, but give the BS about the safety of using them a rest, your just convincing those that can, that you can't......

Your a master mariner, so what? I have a RYA yachmaster certificate, and to be honest I don't think it's worth that much. That piece of paper you have dosent mean your the one and only authority regarding yacht navigation.

Theres many people cruising all around this world very safely with different views than yours, they have the runs on the board and that's what counts.

And regarding the Kimberlies, if you used one of the satellite navigation programs to determine what's under the water in those areas then your a fool and you would most likely come unstuck regardless of what you used, any navigation program etc is only as good as the operator.

And yes I'm aware of the big tides, I've cruised across the top twice.