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Old 07-11-2023, 01:56   #46
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Originally Posted by kapnkarl View Post
$26 for a full functioning chart plotter with charts that are current, weather etc and your balking because of a subscription model? Your choice
Where do i get a full functioning chartplotter for 26$...? What is full functioning: NMEA data ? Autopilot steering? Radar integration?

I guess best is we compare prices for a typical yearly done circles of us bluewater sailors, then you also see why we are barking:
How much does this cost with the chart you are using?
Complete med to canaries via cap verde into Caribbean and then back via Bermuda, Azores to portugal (into med again)
I use orca, Isailor and Navionics
Orca: 139Euro per year
app+map only includes Weather, Internet AIS
With core: additional all(!!) Autopilot steering, weather, AIS via NMEA and internet, 9axis compas and 10HZ ROT heading NMEA data and radar integration:
App+map only subscription: 139Euro per year all maps they have, still some holes in map couverage for the route but the pace they made last year this will be fixed soon. Still useable though and 90% you want on this route is in. In combo with isailor for the missing 10% all you need. Offline charts not accessible without subscription.
orca core blackbox (you don't need it so app works but i highly recommend it as it makes their offering outstanding) with 9axis compass and 10Hz fast heading ROT GPS for doppler radars and radar integration (at the momemt only Raymarine Quantum 1+2 but more in development) is one timer 550Euro incl.1 year app+chart subscription (all they have). Only the compass/GPS raymarine EV1 which i would otherwise need for Quantum 2 doppler function is a 1000Euro...i got orca core exactly because of that compass/GPS as its broadcasting this via NMEA and orca on top for free, just as backup.
plot twist the backup became now my preferred system.

Isailor: 185Euro per year
one off fee lifetime for all NMEA data incl. Autopilot steering (only NMEA0183 ap) and AIS (via NMEA data) is 100$, without that free. You need a nmea to wifi dongle
or bridge. Maps is correction service means you buy map once and have it unlimited incl. 1 year correction service, want newest just renew the correction service for same price. Thats the perfect subscription model for the user!!
Whole med is about 100Euro
Canaries+Atltantic crossing both way is 18Euro
Whole caribbean is 40Euro
Portugal is 25Euro
Total: 185Euro

Navionics: 300 per year(new price) versus 130 Euro old, with NMEA0183 Dongle AIS nmea and depth, nothing else. New offline charts need subscription.
Whole med and Canaries is 150Euro
Crossing and Caribbean is 100Euro with US
Crossing back and Portugal is 50Euro.
Total: 300Euro / old price was 130Euro!!!
I will not renew Navionics in general, download all i have subscription now with old version on my old ipads. Most likely i wil get just the 50Euro med+Black sea as there they are best, so navionics lost 65% turnover with this move...
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Old 07-11-2023, 02:12   #47
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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I switched from Navionics to AquaMaps a couple of years ago, still kept Navionics as a backup and to compare charts, but frankly their product is inferior, it’s only appeal was a slightly more polished UI.
Which product is inferior, Navionics or Aquamap?
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Old 07-11-2023, 02:29   #48
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Which product is inferior, Navionics or Aquamap?
Due to him Aquamap but whats the setup costs for Aquamap?

Also what features Aquamap has and how much do maps for the circle med to canaries via cap verde into Caribbean and then back via Bermuda, Azores to portugal (into med again) cost?

Then compare with navionics, Orca, isailor, see my post #46.
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Old 07-11-2023, 06:45   #49
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

For me, my needs are far simpler. I just want a reliable backup chart set, and chartplotter, that shows my area, and does so reliably, and inexpensively.

I don't care about all the add-ons like weather, or tides, or AIS, or NMEA integration. I just want a reliable set of digital charts, that won't disappear on me if I decide to stop paying annual fees.
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Old 07-11-2023, 06:48   #50
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
For me, my needs are far simpler. I just want a reliable backup chart set, and chartplotter, that shows my area, and does so reliably, and inexpensively.

I don't care about all the add-ons like weather, or tides, or AIS, or NMEA integration. I just want a reliable set of digital charts, that won't disappear on me if I decide to stop paying annual fees.

I've been filling the "backup charting and nav system" role with an old laptop running OpenCPN and a USB GPS puck. Seemed like the simplest, cheapest way I could do it and with minimal reliance on anything external or any subscriptions.
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Old 07-11-2023, 06:56   #51
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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I've been filling the "backup charting and nav system" role with an old laptop running OpenCPN and a USB GPS puck. Seemed like the simplest, cheapest way I could do it and with minimal reliance on anything external or any subscriptions.

I might consider this route if all the apps start requiring a subscription for continued access.
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Old 07-11-2023, 08:00   #52
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Thumbs up Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

OpenCPN on both WIN10 PC and Android.

Have all Pacific CHS Raster charts (updated to May 2023) plus current O-charts Pacific (and many many mbtiles).


Plus o-charts charts remain useable even if you do not renew subscription

Canada O-charts are kept up-to-date with CHS updates (Navionics is not) and IDENTICAL to CHS vector.

BUT: CHS vector/o-charts misses a few places with old raster charts.
(Sat2chart/Sasplanet can fill these in.)


Do NOT find OpenCPN difficult to use.
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Old 08-11-2023, 08:06   #53
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

I just received a clear response from Garmin regarding the status of downloaded charts if you do not renew a license.

From "Julian" at product.support@garmin.com:

Quote:
"The charts that are still loaded to the device, they aren't removed but not useable until subscription is renewed. "
This makes this tool untenable to me. Especially given Garmin's propensity to arbitrarily and significantly increase its pricing. I will be seeking alternatives before my renewal date comes up.

What about iNavx? I used their app for years, but left when they had issues with stability and licensing of Navionics charts. But I've been looking at them again. They specifically state do not disable downloaded charts with the end of a subscription, although Navionics used to be this way...
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Old 08-11-2023, 12:42   #54
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

My subscrition to Navionics wiil end nxt week. So I am researching
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Old 08-11-2023, 12:57   #55
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

My subscription to Navionics will end next week. So, now I am researching other options.
Friends using Aquamap and telling me they like it better than Navionics because of the Depth contour available from the Corps of Engineering. Which gets updated Daily (?).
I like the Auto route feature on Navionics but for planning purposes only, I find the thick, heavy blue line very obstructive. I cannot find a way to make it less thick? Also, I would prefer the navigation line extending from the boat indefinitely to be able to set at 10 minutes or so. Like a can do on my old Raymarine RL70 chart plotter. Any help would be appreciated.
But my main problem is downloading and opening the Navionics on my Galaxy Tablet A.
I am getting an error code 003 ?! It will not let me open the program. I have no problem using it on my phone, works perfect.
Customer support from Garmi has not been able to help me.
Cheers from s/v Belvedere
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Old 08-11-2023, 15:04   #56
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

I'm back to looking at AquaMaps as well. My main problem with Garmin/Navionics is how they've arbitrarily changed things so that I must maintain an active license to even access the charts already downloaded on my device. This, to me, is ridiculous.

I'm looking at Aquamaps again. I was told by Aquamaps that they also require an active subscription, otherwise charts will be innacessable on my device. HOWEVER, as someone pointed out, they have a one-time "Forever" subscription for the Canada/USA chartset which states:

Quote:
For this area you can purchase a 1 year subscription or an unlimited license (bold is mine) to use the Aqua Map charts for US & Canada, to download them on your device (to be used offline) and to keep them updated.
Can anyone confirm that for $49, I get perpetual access to charts downloaded on my device, and perpetual updates. This seems too good to be true, but if so, I'm definitely in.
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Old 08-11-2023, 15:10   #57
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
For me, my needs are far simpler. I just want a reliable backup chart set, and chartplotter, that shows my area, and does so reliably, and inexpensively.

I don't care about all the add-ons like weather, or tides, or AIS, or NMEA integration. I just want a reliable set of digital charts, that won't disappear on me if I decide to stop paying annual fees.

That is called paper.
:-)
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Old 09-11-2023, 08:00   #58
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

I think I'm sold on Aquamaps. As long as the chartset for my area is up-to-date with the current government issue (something TZ Boats failed me on), then I'm in!

I asked for clarification around their "forever" license that is available on their Canada & USA chartset. Their answers are in BOLD.
Quote:

Q1. Is the $49 “Forever” license a one-time fee?
YES

Q2. For this fee, will the Canadian charts I download remain active on my device forever?
YES you maintain the right to download the data when you want. You can cancel and redownload the area of interests when you want not necessary to keep all data in the device

Q3. For this fee do I get to "keep them updated” forever?
YES

With "forever" we mean until our company, Google and Apple will exists and technology will allow the use of the app...

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Aqua Map Support
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Old 09-11-2023, 08:42   #59
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I think I'm sold on Aquamaps. As long as the chartset for my area is up-to-date with the current government issue (something TZ Boats failed me on), then I'm in!
I'm very curious to hear if this is the case. (I still have a lingering suspicion there's an issue on the CHS side rather than with the downstream re-sellers.)
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Old 09-11-2023, 08:49   #60
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

I spoke with a Gentleman at Bluewater Books & Charts https://www.bluewaterweb.com a while back and he suggested C-Map charts.

I recently downloaded their app https://www.c-map.com/app/. It can be used on 5 devices, it is $15 yearly, and at a cursory glance appears to be a viable alternative to Navionics.

I haven't had an opportunity to vet it yet, does anyone have any experience using it out in the wild?

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