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Old 01-11-2023, 10:44   #16
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
Sorry if my previous post sounded like I was dumping on you, personally. I should have been more careful in my wording.

My point is I honestly don't believe Garmin sees us as a critical revenue stream. The way they work is they buy up the competition, lay off all the support and development staff, and milk it for as long as they can.

They fully expect subscriptions to fall off. Remember, they're an aviation electronics company first. Their target market is the "money is no object" crowd. Plenty of those types in boating. Those customers will keep paying for years, and probably brag to their yotting buddies how much they spent. Garmin doesn't need us.
I know Garmin and their private equity menatality well.
But you underestimate the spread of navionics in leisure boating and they want their money back.
So
A)terminating subscription hurts them
B)shitstorm about ripping of the community costs them a lot brand value
C)rendering million old tablets useless in todays environmental sensitive culture could cause a shitstorm and ban of all their products, it just need to be done right
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Old 01-11-2023, 10:48   #17
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

Who is running more than 2 apps of Navionics at one time during a trip? Not sure I understand the outrage...
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Old 01-11-2023, 10:55   #18
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Use SASplanet to download charts as MBtiles, store them locally and use OpenCPN or QTvlm to navigate with them. A CM93 baselayer is helpful too for object queries.
Problem with Open CPN is its as userfriendly as the tax report statement :-(
Then fiddling with all that map sources, downloading, reformating...i am retired and each minute less on the pc is a good minute. Yes its free but it costs a lot of time, also to setup and get used to it.

I have an ipad 2 with old version of navionics running, no 2 device limit.
You cannot buy charts anymore with this version.
I will download a lot of area of interest in europe map with it. Assume they cannot block you to access what you downloaded with this old version. Need to check which Version is on my ipad2.

Does someone with Andriod have an APK of Navionics earlier version, say 15? Or where to find?
Aptoide has non.
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Old 01-11-2023, 11:04   #19
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Problem with Open CPN is its as userfriendly as the tax report statement :-(

Then fiddling with all that map sources, downloading, reformating...i am retired and each minute less on the pc is a good minute. Yes its free but it costs a lot of time, also to setup and get used to it.



I have an ipad 2 with old version of navionics running, no 2 device limit.

You cannot buy charts anymore with this version.

I will download a lot of area of interest in europe map with it. Assume they cannot block you to access what you downloaded with this old version. Need to check which Version is on my ipad2.



Does someone with Andriod have an APK of Navionics earlier version, say 15? Or where to find?

Aptoide has non.
I find and found OpenCPN always fairly easy to use and largely intuitive, but then I've been using it for very long.

Would not say that about SASplanet though.
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Old 01-11-2023, 11:04   #20
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Who is running more than 2 apps of Navionics at one time during a trip? Not sure I understand the outrage...
3 tablets semi permanent installed:
One at the helm, one at the salon nav station, one in my owner cabin when crew is on watch (also runs the anchor alarm apps i anchor) all connected to NMEA.
Normally then via ipad pro connected to garmin glo2 GPS, in parallel in case the onboard system gets fouled (sailed once 4 days wrong course because a torchlight with neodym magnet was left in engine room and above was the ap with the compass in a B&G system) just to do in parallel further planning/checking where to go. Add to that phones to quickly check...all 3 semipermanemt always but the rest maybe not all simultaneously but that logging in/out is pita.
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Old 01-11-2023, 12:25   #21
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

This is probably intended to crack down on password sharing, just like streaming services are all doing. Buy a few hundred dollars worth of charts, then give your password to a friend.

What if internet access is turned off on one or more of the devices? For example, in my case I can connect to my YDWG-02 to get AIS information, and when I do that, the device can't call home. I've not used it in a while though, so I don't know how it currently reacts to that situation.
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Old 01-11-2023, 13:18   #22
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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This is probably intended to crack down on password sharing, just like streaming services are all doing. Buy a few hundred dollars worth of charts, then give your password to a friend.

What if internet access is turned off on one or more of the devices? For example, in my case I can connect to my YDWG-02 to get AIS information, and when I do that, the device can't call home. I've not used it in a while though, so I don't know how it currently reacts to that situation.
Your device and GPS has a time stamp, so it expires even you are offline.

The only chance i see is with an old version. Eg ipad 2 doesn't count into device limit as its version is old and Navionics cannot track that.
You cannot buy new map but you can download. Well not much change anyhow in 2-3 years so i will keep using itwith offine maps and old version but not renew.
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Old 01-11-2023, 13:40   #23
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Your device and GPS has a time stamp, so it expires even you are offline.

The only chance i see is with an old version. Eg ipad 2 doesn't count into device limit as its version is old and Navionics cannot track that.
You cannot buy new map but you can download. Well not much change anyhow in 2-3 years so i will keep using itwith offine maps and old version but not renew.
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Of course it will expire. Just go online when you need to update everything and reset the expiration date. But when you are actually using it, all 4 devices can be on and working at the same time if 2 of them are offline. If offshore, all would be offline anyway.

As navigation software, Navionics has never been very good. However, it has charts. I sailor and Orca both have limited libraries that don't include some popular cruising areas.
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Old 01-11-2023, 14:07   #24
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Of course it will expire. Just go online when you need to update everything and reset the expiration date. But when you are actually using it, all 4 devices can be on and working at the same time if 2 of them are offline. If offshore, all would be offline anyway.

As navigation software, Navionics has never been very good. However, it has charts. I sailor and Orca both have limited libraries that don't include some popular cruising areas.
Doesn't work, already tried fooling expiration date, doesn’t work. I assume they check GPS time stamp.
Using old tablets with not up to date app version do not count into the device limit. I have 2 old ipads (1+2)and 1 old android tablet (running on Android 10) and they are online but don't count into device limit.
As soon as you update app to version 20 to be able to buy or extend your maps subscription the device counts into the limits. Old versions not.
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Old 01-11-2023, 14:23   #25
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Who is running more than 2 apps of Navionics at one time during a trip? Not sure I understand the outrage...

Agree
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Old 06-11-2023, 06:49   #26
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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Who is running more than 2 apps of Navionics at one time during a trip? Not sure I understand the outrage...
Not sure I understand the outrage either.

Most software companies only a low you to run the app on two devices at one time anyway.

As for the price , if you donít like it use something else like CMaps. They are bringing the mobile fee into line due to the fact that people are using iPhones and iPads for navigation instead of the charplotter.
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Old 06-11-2023, 06:57   #27
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

If it is sharing pwds by separate parties they want to avoid, could they implement an algorithm that open apps separated by more than, say, 5 nm would not be allowed? I would assume that if they can grab time stamps from users that they can also grab position data from their user's devices. A bit intrusive some might feel, but it would stop illegitimate pwd sharing.
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Old 06-11-2023, 07:31   #28
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

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If it is sharing pwds by separate parties they want to avoid, could they implement an algorithm that open apps separated by more than, say, 5 nm would not be allowed? I would assume that if they can grab time stamps from users that they can also grab position data from their user's devices. A bit intrusive some might feel, but it would stop illegitimate pwd sharing.
Position data and time Stamp is what puts your boat exactly on the map where you are. Core functionality of that software, nothing intrusive or illegal at all. And easy to implement that 5nm limit even in offline use as this comes from GPS which is still on even you put your GSM/4g/5g tablet in flight mode.
same with cross triangular positioning from wlan access points, bt networks or broadcasting of world time clock and other similar methods if you have wifi only version without GPS module still delivers position and time stamp.
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Old 06-11-2023, 07:41   #29
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

Garmin is a public company. As I happen to have a few shares in it I fully endorse their reasonably taking steps to prevent people ripping off their intellectual property. Too many people seem to think that if you cannot touch it then it should be free.

Having said, that the steps must be reasonable. The reply that you got from them appears to me to be perfectly reasonable.

Not least as if you are, literally, in the same boat then with modern chart plotters equipped with WiFi you only need to be running one licence. Your phone/tablet can run the app and receive the data over WiFi.

There is also an argument that it is safer and better to have multiple data sources. So I run Garmin Blue Chart on my plotter, C-Map on my Android phone and iSailor on my iPad. Then switch between seeing what is on the plotter on the mobile devices.
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Old 06-11-2023, 08:13   #30
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Re: Navionics just updated their terms to limited logged users to two per account

Aside from the issue of licensing costs, this thread raises concerns about how Navionics are enforcing the usage limits? The assumption has to be that it involves verification over the internet?
I, like many others I am sure, have Navionics installed on old tablets and kept onboard as backup if chartplotter or primary tablet fails for any reason. Historically we could rely on being able to fire up one of these tablets in an emergency and quickly restore a navigation capability.
I am now concerned that when I do this the Navionics app will require an internet connection and some kind of reauthentication.
We need assurance from Navionics that these changes will not prevent this - or if they do, what licensing we need to purchase to guarantee that tablets will work correctly in this scenario.
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