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Old 16-10-2017, 15:21   #16
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

Hmm....

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Maybe you should have waited until Scotty complied with your request, Matt!

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Old 16-10-2017, 15:25   #17
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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Depends where the finish line for the leg is located, and that's probably on their website.





Ann


Could not find details but a finish line outside the Rip seems unlikely. Not a lot of spectators out there. The odd Taswegian making a run for the mainland perhaps...
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Old 16-10-2017, 15:27   #18
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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Hmm....







Maybe you should have waited until Scotty complied with your request, Matt!



Jim


You dag.
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Old 16-10-2017, 15:30   #19
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Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

Anyway, where the heck is UC? He has sailed on these sorts of rocket sleds, he should know. I'll go poke the bear.
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Old 16-10-2017, 16:13   #20
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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OK, this may become one of my silliest posts yet... but please, hear me out.

This summer (December in the Southern Hemisphere), the Volvo Ocean Race boats will sail from Cape Town to my old home town, Melbourne.

Let me tell you, as a Melbourne boy, born and raised... I have no idea why they are sailing to Melbourne. But they are. They probably have a good reason.

Anyway, I will be in Adelaide as they sail past to the South of me, and I am wondering if it would be possible to sail out there into Bass Straight and actually watch them sail past. As in, get them in sight at least.

Initially I thought "Not a chance." I mean my boat does 6 knots on a good day, and those things are doing 25 or more.

But... then... I only have to sail North/South, to intercept them... and their location and course are pretty well known in near real time.
Do you realise that the closest they will get to Adelaide will be about 450NM, and at the point they pass south of Adelaide, they will probably be more like 6-700NM south of you?
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Old 16-10-2017, 16:27   #21
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

Just had a look at the next leg of this race. Melbourne - Hongkong (then a short hop to Guangzhou after which they head back down to NZ)

Looks like they will be passing closer to me than to you.

It's going to be interesting to see which way they go. There's a lot of hard, lumpy bits in the way where they have to get past PNG and the Solomon Islands. And in January - they are very much in the lap of the weather gods.
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Old 16-10-2017, 16:27   #22
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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Do you realise that the closest they will get to Adelaide will be about 450NM, and at the point they pass south of Adelaide, they will probably be more like 6-700NM south of you?


In short... yes.

But it's a good point. If I did this I'd plod around to Port Macdonnell and hang out there for a few days before trying for an intercept course. Port Macdonnell feels like the best compromise, after that I would have to travel too far East for any significant gains South.

I am assuming they will stay well South and only head up at the last minute, but do you have some extra info on their probable course?

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Old 16-10-2017, 16:51   #23
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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They are going to stop over in Melbourne so that means they'll go North of Tassie unless all the navigators trained on Vestas Wind. :^)
I see you are sailing a Swanson. Do anything with one of those!
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Old 16-10-2017, 16:52   #24
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

The best way to intersect, with uncertainties, is to sail backwards on their course. That way, differences in time will not put you out of sight.
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Old 16-10-2017, 16:57   #25
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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I see you are sailing a Swanson. Do anything with one of those!


Said with a total absence of any bias whatsoever. :^)
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Old 16-10-2017, 17:00   #26
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

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The best way to intersect, with uncertainties, is to sail backwards on their course. That way, differences in time will not put you out of sight.


Can't do that. 3/4 keel makes reversing nearly impossible.

Ha ha. Couldn't resist, sorry.

But yeah, there's a reasonably easy calculation to made based on projected course that can use this principle, however, with the speed difference the range of usable angles are pretty small.

I'm still worried that a fractional change in their course could put them over the horizon and out of site.
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Old 17-10-2017, 00:27   #27
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

Figure out how to get as much real time, continuous, info on the fleet from race HQ as you can. Since they'll know with a high degree of probability where the fleet will be, & when. That way you can loiter several hours, or even a day upwind, & move to intercept when their tracks firm up.

And by loiter I mean essentially hover over where their projected track will be, making a bit of gain to windward with each tack, but not being in full upwind mode. That way you're not beating the stuffing out of yourself, your crew, or the boat, while giving yourself a bit more sea room to "catch up" if their track changes. Catching up being shifting your position to wind up in front of the fleet so that they sail overtop of you at speed. Since you obviously can't catch them should they pass you.

I'd say that once their track firms up, probably beam reaching back & forth across their projected path would be the way to go. Or perhaps pointing a bit higher than 090 relative wind. That way you make good speed, & once you know the best CPA solution to meet them you can drop down to 110 AWA to stabilize the boat, while still moving well (fast) & not losing much distance "upwind" relative to the fleet.

It's a CPA excercise, where you want to have your track crossing in front of theirs by quite a bit. So that if/when things change, you have enough buffer distance to correct for it. Letting them come to you:
Much as the submarine wolf packs did in WW I with merchant fleets. Sprinting only when you know that you're in a good spot to definitively cross ahead of them. Which is how the submarine packs "caught" their faster prey at sea; sprint & drift, laying in wait along the most likely routes. Since on battery power, in stealth mode, they couldn't come close to matching the speeds of the surface ships. And often not even when they were on the surface using their diesels. Which, then, they were supremely vulnerable to the deck guns on the merchant's & their escorts. Let alone if those ships guarding the fleets had torpeedos & depth charges.

Or watch The Hunt for Red October. Similar strategy, great film... "From the hounds to the hunters".
Part of the Russian fleet chases Red October at high speed, driving her towards the other part of the fleet laying in wait for her off of the US coast. Ancient hunting trick.

Note that the closer the fleet gets to the finish, the more they'll tend to bunch up, just as happens at a race's start, or when rounding a mark. So they'll be easier to intercept there, or near there, than in the open ocean. As when they're still a good distance from the finishing gate, if there's a notable wind or weather shift, their track could alter significantly. Or in rare instances, the fleet will split apart into 2 groups, instead of covering each other.

It would also be worth seeing if you can get some gyro stabilized optics, like a camera (both still, & movie in one ideally) & connect them to a big screen through your laptop onboard. Though even a regular camera with plenty of zoom will do, as the shutter speed is fast enough to remove most of the relative motion. Or you can purposefully leave it set slow, for that blurred, speed effect. So that it gives the sense of the boats moving fast.

Obviously objective lens size, glass quality, lens coatings, & software are the biggies in this equation. But you can do quite well from a distance with even a 35mm film camera with a 210mm zoom lens.
Also, have a plan to clean & service them afterwards, including if they get douched. Most things are saveable from such incidents if you act relatively swiftly, & wisely.

Might post a thread too asking for feedback on what world work in terms of a drone to get you good pics at some distance. As they can make fairly stable imaging platforms as compared to a boat's deck sometimes.
The trick's in retrieving them it seems
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Old 17-10-2017, 01:51   #28
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

In the previous 2 races they came into our town; for some reason we lost that privilege (financial burden to some locals) for this time.
Gilow, great idea I might do the same...... as they stopover in Fremantle, 350 Nm from here. On their next leg they should come close to 'my' place.
Need to check the route stopovers, and also they have often "gates". These are GPS coordinates that they can or must sail through either to score extra points or to qualify.
check here: https://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/race/leg/leg-4
Hmm, I can't see any gates; it looks that Melbourne is not a stopover, Sydney is.
It looks that the route is well below Tasmania, loooong way from you Gilow.

Here is a photo from a few years ago.
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Old 17-10-2017, 01:56   #29
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

Hey mate. Wrong race. There are a few of them. I'm talking VOR.
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Old 17-10-2017, 02:06   #30
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Re: Navigation challenge - hitting a bullet with a snail?

Sorry Gilow, just noticed my mistake before your posted that, same time of the year, similar track/area, but... wrong race. Forget my post #28. I will crawl back in the bunk again.
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