Masthead & Deck Nav Lights

[deblen]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

If you're under power, you are a power driven vessel and a steaming light is required, even if you have your foresail (or any other sail) up.

Yes-I am well aware of that,since I motorsail quite often.
I prefer to see as much as possible though.

[waterman46]

Your nav lights and switches seem to be properly connected and no change is needed. You could eliminate one of those switches if desired. . On my boat I installed a three position toggle switch when I added masthead nav lights. Switch has 3 terminals. Center terminal to fuse for 12V supply. Upper terminal to masthead light. Lower terminal to deck level nav lights.

With toggle in center, neither circuit is connected, due to design of switch. So switch is probably sold as "ON-OFF-ON" type.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Thanks for the great replies and clarification of the terminology. It all makes sense.

Now I understand why it is wired the way that it is.

Thanks

Al

Just to clarify your picture, in the illustration second from left, the "either" includes the sternlight. You shouldn't show the deck level stern light with the tri-colour.

[puffcard]

Another point the OP might think about, is when sailing offshore the mast top tri-color is more easily seen. But I like using the deck level nav lights when sailing in the harbor. I live in Norfolk Va and we have a very busy harbor, with everything from roundabouts to aircraft carriers.

[goat]

The tri-colour also lights up your windex. Useful for night sailing.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by StuM

Just to clarify your picture, in the illustration second from left, the "either" includes the sternlight. You shouldn't show the deck level stern light with the tri-colour.

And for some further nit picking...

The illustration shows all the deck level port and starboard nav lights for sail boats as bi-colour lamps. There is no requirements for them to be bi-colour lamps, they may be standard side lights (providing they are not obscured of course).

For the pedantic (like me ), run each light (port/starboard/stern) though its own fuse, wiring and via a single three pole switch. This ensure a failure in one circuit does not affect the other two.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Center terminal to fuse for 12V supply. Upper terminal to masthead light. Lower terminal to deck level nav lights.

As Deblen correctly pointed out earlier. "masthead light" has a specific meaning. It is what is also commonly called a "steaming light".

Please avoid using "masthead light" to refer to tri-colour or anchor lights at the top of the mast - it just confuses the issue.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Wotname

And for some further nit picking...

The illustration shows all the deck level port and starboard nav lights for sail boats as bi-colour lamps. There is no requirements for them to be bi-colour lamps, they may be standard side lights (providing they are not obscured of course).

And if the vessel is over 20 metres, they must be separate

[fxykty]

Good explanations in this thread. Unfortunately my 2003 French-built boat has no deck level navigation lights, only a tri-colour at the top of the mast, in addition to a steaming light on the front of the mast about 1/3 height above deck. So whilst motoring at night we can not show the correct lights. Darn.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Good explanations in this thread. Unfortunately my 2003 French-built boat has no deck level navigation lights, only a tri-colour at the top of the mast, in addition to a steaming light on the front of the mast about 1/3 height above deck. So whilst motoring at night we can not show the correct lights. Darn.

You are legal under Rule 25 b. & the pics in post # 11.

While under sail only,operate your tri-light- the tri-light provides your red & green "sidelights" plus your stern light.

When you run your engine,with or without sails up,turn on your "steaming light" (masthead light -the confusingly named light on the front of your mast)
Your boat should be equipped with 2 switches for nav lights.
1 for the tri-light, 1 for the steaming light.

72 COLREGS http://www.mar.ist.utl.pt/mventura/P...OLREG-1972.pdf


Cheers/ Len

[StuM]

Originally Posted by deblen

You are legal under Rule 25 b. & the pics in post # 11.

While under sail only,operate your tri-light- the tri-light provides your red & green "sidelights" plus your stern light.

When you run your engine,with or without sails up,turn on your "steaming light" (masthead light -the confusingly named light on the front of your mast)
Your boat should be equipped with 2 switches for nav lights.
1 for the tri-light, 1 for the steaming light.

72 COLREGS http://www.mar.ist.utl.pt/mventura/P...OLREG-1972.pdf


Cheers/ Len

Sorry, but you are incorrect. When under power, he is a "power-driven vessel", not a sailing vessel" and Rule 25 doesn't apply to him. He falls under Rule 23 in that situation.

Rule 25 is the only rule that allows for a tri-colour lantern.

There is no provision in Rule 23 for a "power-driven vessel" to have a combined tricolour above the masthead light.


Annex 1 sets out the rule for the positioning of lights. Para 2 (g) and (h) make it clear that the sidelights must by below the masthead light.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by StuM

Sorry, but you are incorrect. When under power, he is a "power-driven vessel", not a sailing vessel" and Rule 25 doesn't apply to him. He falls under Rule 23 in that situation.

Rule 25 is the only rule that allows for a tri-colour lantern.

There is no provision in Rule 23 for a "power-driven vessel" to have a combined tricolour above the masthead light.


Annex 1 sets out the rule for the positioning of lights. Para 2 (g) and (h) make it clear that the sidelights must by below the masthead light.

Well now-perhaps you've answered my earlier question about motorsailing ie: motoring a sailboat at night with the sails up.
I get blinding backscatter light because of the steaming light shining on the foresail.
This is unsafe,as I can't stand the proper visual watch required by the Rules.
By the Rules,I would have to lower my foresail as it is obstructing my forward vision.

There is confusion? between Rule 23(motorized vessel) and Rule 25 (e) (motoring sailboat)

According to 25 (e),a motoring sailboat shall show red,green,stern and a black cone-no mention of day or night.

How say you & why. / Len

[Comix Bay]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Great information. I have both and really didn't know when to use them properly. Thanks

I suggest that you contact your local Canadian Power Squadron and take a seamanship course minumum being the PCOC

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by deblen

There is confusion? between Rule 23(motorized vessel) and Rule 25 (e) (motoring sailboat)

According to 25 (e),a motoring sailboat shall show red,green,stern and a black cone-no mention of day or night.

How say you & why. / Len

There's not a lot of room for confusion:

The definition of "sailing vessel" in rule 3 explicitly excludes a vessel motor-sailing, but the definition of "power driven vessel" also includes motor-sailing.

Rule 23 refers to a "power driven vessel"
Rule 25(a)-(d) refers to a "sailing vessel"
But Rule 25(e) does not refer to a "sailing vessel", it refers to a "vessel proceeding under sail"

Once you start "using" your "propelling machinery" you are no longer a "sailing vessel", but a "power driven vessel" even if you are also a "vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery"

... and yes I hate the reflection of the masthead light on the headsail too. Apart from furling the jib, I suppose the solution is to actually put it at the top of the mast ... I don't think there is a rule saying it can't be there.

Rule 3
(b)The term “power-driven vessel” means any vessel propelled by machinery.
(c) The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

Rule 23
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) a masthead light forward,
etc

Rule 25
(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) sidelights,
(ii) a sternlight.
elc

Rule 25
(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by deblen

There is confusion? between Rule 23(motorized vessel) and Rule 25 (e) (motoring sailboat)

According to 25 (e),a motoring sailboat shall show red,green,stern and a black cone-no mention of day or night.

How say you & why. / Len

Rule 25(e) says nothing about lights. It is ONLY about the black cone.

If you look at the definitions, a "motoring sailboat" is a "power-driven vessel" so Rules 23 and Rule 25 (e) both apply. The rest of Rule 25 doesn't apply.