Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-12-2024, 14:53   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 6
Lightning detection

While lightening strikes are quite rare, I seem to see more and more unfortunate reports of strikes taking boats off-line and causing immense damage to their computer-controlled equipment and even engines.

I have not been able to find any lightning detection equipment. For years, before all FAA weather stations had them, small airplanes often had "sferics" or lightning strike finders (3M Strikefinder being the first device). These were very reliable devices that utilized a small antenna and a small decoder/display unit. I flew 1000's of hours with them and found them extremely helpful in determining which systems were needing a wider berth...

Anyone know of such a product for marine navigation?
sg88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2024, 15:27   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 655
Re: lightening detection

Cool - I'd never heard of these but did some reading and it was pretty interesting.

Google finds some stuff - expensive and cheap - but no idea if anyone would use it.

https://www.boltek.com/product/ld250...-detection-kit

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/talsfd-...detection.html

I assume a sailor can usually see lightning but has less ability to get out of the way than a plane.
leecea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2024, 18:41   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
Re: lightening detection

There are situations where lightning detection is valuable, but I don't see the point for a cruising boat. Traveling at our speeds we can't really give local weather systems very much of a "wide berth".

In addition to that, when on the ocean what more "lightning detection" do you need than your ears to tell you it's around, and a standard radar to tell you where? And at night, you can see lightning from much further away than any local instrument will detect. But again, to what point? What action can you realistically take?

I've been hit by lightning on a delivery. I knew the storm was there, but nothing I could really do about it. We were not even directly under it. Most of my time worried about lightning is while anchored when there is even less to do.

And if you really thought locating lightning was valuable, there are multiple real time lightning trackers available on the internet. They claim to be quite accurate, and could be accessed with starlink or other system. I don't know what their open ocean coverage is, but I know it is far more comprehensive than weather radar. Which is likely most of what you might want, since lightning in the open ocean is not nearly as common as over land or coastal waters.
SailingHarmonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2024, 19:13   #4
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 6
Re: lightening detection

I have seen those systems and I think they basically say there is lightning about X miles away generally at such and such a bearing. The systems we had in airplanes gave strike density and direct bearing, and when combined that information on a radar you also got true distance. You could pick a path through fairly solid rain on a radar and expect to remain free of significant turbulence and active lightning if the device reported clear. I have certainly been in the area of squalls and picked one heading versus another based on how the clouds, wind and seas appeared but it might be nice to have another decision point. As long as there is at least a partial vertical component to the lightning bolt the sferics device will see it so you can pick cloud to cloud lightning as well. I expect that squalls as more turbulent and less enjoyable for sailing near if there is lightning than if not.
sg88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2024, 19:21   #5
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 6
Re: lightening detection

Could be TMI if you can’t react, such as at anchor. I think there is some opportunity to adjust course relative to squalls and with theses devices you can see convection and its movement pattern from many miles away. Finally, I have wondered (but I am not an electrical engineer or electrician) about whether it could be possible to have a reserve electrical system, maybe one engine, battery and a few key electronics) that could be physically disconnected from the rest of the boat if you happened to be stuck in the middle of an intense amount of lightning, whether at anchor or underway.
sg88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2024, 19:53   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
Re: lightening detection

Quote:
Originally Posted by sg88 View Post
Could be TMI if you can’t react, such as at anchor. I think there is some opportunity to adjust course relative to squalls and with theses devices you can see convection and its movement pattern from many miles away. Finally, I have wondered (but I am not an electrical engineer or electrician) about whether it could be possible to have a reserve electrical system, maybe one engine, battery and a few key electronics) that could be physically disconnected from the rest of the boat if you happened to be stuck in the middle of an intense amount of lightning, whether at anchor or underway.
I just do not see what information you get from a dedicated lightning detection instrument that you cannot get from your eyeballs and your radar.

If the conditions are such that lightning is forming in squalls, then every squall is a potential lightning generator. So you use your radar to find your way through them if that works for you.

There are things you can do in the moment to protect your electronics from a lightning strike, that have at least some success. But I just keep come back to why do you need an instrument to tell you there is lightning around? Eyes and ears. Eyes and ears. Last I checked lightning is NOT a subtle phenomenon that is difficult to see and hear while you are on the deck of a boat. A very different environment than an airplane cockpit.

But if you really feel that an instrument can tell you the location of lightning with enough additional precision over and above your eyes and ears to be useful, then I won't argue, but you are very unlikely to find my opening my wallet for such a tool.
SailingHarmonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2024, 23:18   #7
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 2,371
Images: 3
Re: lightening detection

Ever since I got my Starlink I've changed my approach when sailing offshore with regards to squalls. I used to use my radar to show me CuNim clouds and with MARPA could plot the course and see how I could avoid the cells.

Now I fire up my Starlink and use Blitzortung.org to show me if what I see is actually producing lightning. The website shows all lightning strikes worldwide with only a few milliseconds delay - it doesn't get any more "real time" and accurate than that.

If it is a squall line and not a single cell, then this information doesn't help me much - you can't outrun a front in a sailboat.
__________________
Zanshin Sailing Website
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 13:45   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 101
Re: lightening detection

Dont people sometimes deploy a lightening conductor from a chainplate over the side, or would that just attract it?


Pretty sure I've read that somewhere.
edlithgow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 14:39   #9
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bay of Fundy,Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 3,653
Images: 2
Re: lightening detection

An ordinary old AM broadcast receiver(550-1600Khz) tuned off station will crash & roar with static from an approaching lightening wx front.


https://www.amazon.com/s?k=am+radio&...f=nb_sb_noss_1
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
.
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 15:10   #10
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bay of Fundy,Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 3,653
Images: 2
Re: lightening detection

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lightenin...f=nb_sb_noss_2
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
.
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 15:51   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
Re: lightening detection

Quote:
Originally Posted by edlithgow View Post
Dont people sometimes deploy a lightening conductor from a chainplate over the side, or would that just attract it?


Pretty sure I've read that somewhere.
If only it was that simple...

It will not "attract" lightning, but neither will it help one iota. Unless, of course, you believe it will really and truly work, then it will save you a bunch of worry... until you get struck. In the meantime, don't worry, be happy!
SailingHarmonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 16:05   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bogue Sound NC
Boat: 1987 Cape Dory MKII 30 Hull #3,
Posts: 1,486
Re: lightening detection

AI is your friend or not?
ran the question with Perplexity.AI

=================================================
how to prevent lighting damage on a sailboat at anchor

Sources

Answer

To prevent lightning damage on a sailboat at anchor, follow these key steps:


Install a Lightning Protection System (LPS) with proper grounding and bonding.
This system should include:

An air terminal (lightning rod) extending at least 150mm above the mast

A down conductor connecting the air terminal to a grounding point in the water

An equipotential bonding system connecting all major metal objects on the boat

Protect electronics:

Turn off and disconnect all electronic equipment, including radios and mast-mounted devices

Use surge protection devices for navigation and communication equipment

Store valuable electronics in a Faraday cage (e.g., metal ammo box, chicken wire container, or oven)

Take personal safety precautions:

Stay in the center of the ship's cabin during storms

Avoid touching any metal parts of the boat

If at the helm, sit or stand on a non-conductive surface

Consider installing a static dissipater on the masthead to reduce the risk of a direct strike

Ensure your mast is properly grounded with a thick wire connecting the mast step to the keel

Remember that while these measures can help reduce the risk of damage, they cannot guarantee complete protection from lightning strikes.



Related
What are the best materials for a lightning grounding system on a sailboat
How effective are Faraday cages in protecting electronics during a lightning strike
Can a lightning protection system completely prevent damage to a sailboat
What should I look for in a sailboat survey to ensure it has a proper lightning grounding system
Are there any specific brands or models of sailboats known for their lightning protection systems
davil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 16:10   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bogue Sound NC
Boat: 1987 Cape Dory MKII 30 Hull #3,
Posts: 1,486
Re: lightening detection

just to put these comments in perspective

Google is your friend or not?
=============================

A typical lightning strike can generate around 1 billion volts and 30,000 amps of electricity, making it extremely powerful, with enough energy to power a small town for a day; for comparison, a household current is only around 120 volts and 15 amps.

Don't forget your tin cap
davil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 16:20   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bogue Sound NC
Boat: 1987 Cape Dory MKII 30 Hull #3,
Posts: 1,486
Re: lightening detection

Quote:
Originally Posted by edlithgow View Post
Dont people sometimes deploy a lightening conductor from a chainplate over the side, or would that just attract it?


Pretty sure I've read that somewhere.
====================================

I did that diligently every night during strikes while anchored in San Blas, that was before we have Google.

" A typical lightning strike can generate around 1 billion volts and 30,000 amps of electricity, making it extremely powerful, with enough energy to power a small town for a day; for comparison, a household current is only around 120 volts and 15 amps."

now not so sure
davil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2024, 19:40   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 101
Re: lightening detection

Quote:
Originally Posted by davil View Post
====================================

I did that diligently every night during strikes while anchored in San Blas, that was before we have Google.

" A typical lightning strike can generate around 1 billion volts and 30,000 amps of electricity, making it extremely powerful, with enough energy to power a small town for a day; for comparison, a household current is only around 120 volts and 15 amps."

now not so sure

Well, if it wont attract a strike, by providing a more conductive path, it can only do good, no?


I also remember reading of ferrocement boats being literally blown apart as the current disipated among the finer hull armature wire, but that might have been myth, which they seemed to attract.



I suppose you could drop the mast if its in a tabernacle, and/or get close in shore if thats an option. Scuttling and later salvage would probably be an overreaction.
edlithgow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lightning

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Squall Detection, Pulse Radar vs Broadband? mikereed100 Marine Electronics 24 17-03-2012 20:11
Ciguatera Detection Kit Info Requested Pagan Cooking and Provisioning: Food & Drink 28 08-12-2011 02:29
Crack Detection in Rigging holmek Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 17-10-2011 06:52
Electrolytic conversion detection sandycohen Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 29-06-2011 19:29

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.