Lagoon 450 (Next Life) damaged in the Exuma, The Bahamas

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Anyone open navionics today? All of a sudden there is a row of reefs/obstructions inserted on the chart in that passage, making it look unnavigable. Looks like realtime updates to the Navionics chart, as I am connected to internet.
...

The online version of navionics charts does not show the added obstructions WebApp | Navionics

The iphone navionics app does show these obstrcutions. These obstructions have been added in the "User-layer", User Ruge13 has added these 2/15/2013 14:12:12. The magenta line still 'recommends' the path thru the rocks.

5 screenshots:

• Online navionics WebApp | Navionics
• Navionics - iphone showing added rocks
• Navionics - iphone showing added rocks, zoomed in
• Navionics - iphone query of user-layer rocks
• Navionics - iphone query of magenta line = "center of recommde..."

[four winds]

edit to add, Lease posted while I typed. So is a recommended track? amazing goof.

=================

Noticing that the dashed line is still present in the updated chart, it seems that it does indeed indicate a boundary line. And is not a recommendation of track for entry. (boundary for what?, I don't know)

Looking at the charted area in general and for an entry path in particular it seems to me the area south of the island would be perceived to be a better choice.

Even at my experience level, I would be hesitant to follow that dashed line. Especially considering what I see just to the south.

[Lagoon4us]

We have Navionics Gold in our Raymarine E120 Plotter, the charts i have are for Med only.

There is no recommended routes on any charts, the only lines are pipelines, submarine cables and designated areas.

Must be either a new offering or a Caribbean thing, certainly if you offer routes regardless of disclaimers you are leaving yourself open to litigation more so if blatantly wrong.

Will be interesting to follow.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by four winds

Noticing that the dashed line is still present in the updated chart, it seems that it does indeed indicate a boundary line. And is not a recommendation of track for entry. (boundary for what?, I don't know)

If someone with this could zoom out and/or pan to southeast we may find a definition for this boundary. BTW The Exumas are divided into 2 political districts just like states in the US. Possible reason?

[Kettlewell]

Does anyone know if the owner/operators have been able to tell their story yet?

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Does anyone know if the owner/operators have been able to tell their story yet?

They have a blog:
NEXT LIFE

[Kettlewell]

If someone with this could zoom out and/or pan to southeast we may find a definition for this boundary. BTW The Exumas are divided into 2 political districts just like states in the US. Possible reason?

When I blow up the Explorer Chart there is a red dashed line extending from the souteastern corner of Fowl Cay southwest over to near Isaac Cay. It is labeled "proposed no discharge boundary."

[malbert73]

Navionics on my ipad does have the magenta line labelled (when you click on it) as "centerline of a recommended route."
Hope their disclaimers are up to date

I certainly sympathize with the loss of boat, but even from the pictures the water looks shallow and reefy. I personally would have been going really slowly with watch on bow. I was not there, and do not in any way make this comment specifically to this situation-

But I have noticed the big safety difference between paper and e-charts is not the data. with paper charts, one's eyes are always out of the boat, trying to correlate visual cues with location and chart features. With e-charts, a real tendency comes to stare at the screen, to keep boat on a line, at the exclusion of interpreting cues from the surrounding environment, like shallow water ahead. Even if e-chart is correct, GPS is not always perfect.

I actually think I may start shutting off my chart plotter more this summer as I think my prior excellent DR skills have eroded since I installed the Garmin.

[Kettlewell]

Another thing is that no matter where you're going you should carefully read the guidebooks before you get there--I usually carry every guide for an area and read them all! Every guidebook I know of indicates that passage is either dinghy only, or only to be used when exiting the harbor, with excellent light, and after careful scouting, in perfect weather.

[Kettlewell]

Check out the Navionics Web App chart and zoom in on the area. It looks to me like those dashed magenta lines are supposed to be routes. The other ends of those lines go to other harbors and cruising destinations.

[Lagoon4us]

Reading their BLOG the story of what happened is very clear, it certainly appears that Navionics give routing on Caribbean charts, not something we have available in the Med although our charts are 4 years old.

A sad story indeed. Hoping your luck turns Rolf

[Cotemar]

Tuesday, 29 January 2013
Posted by Silke Sommerfeld at 05:48

Next Life aground - this is what happened...

So, we ran aground going through a cut between Guana Cay and Fowl Cay just outside of Georgetown in the Great Exuma Islands.

You might be wondering how this happened to us. And I even go as far as saying "...to us of all people", meaning that we both are very cautious people and were very well aware of the danger of reefs in this area.

The problem was that we had travelled with the Navionics Chart Software happily and safely for months and for more than 10,000 Nautical Miles. We had also travelled to Alaska and back with the Navionics software without ever running into any problems. We trusted the software, not blindly, mind you, we would still have our guards up. But we trusted it enough to make our passage planning based on the information it provided. For the route we took, Navionics did not only show the depth of the cut as being sufficient, it even showed it as the recommended route to take.

At the same time, the angle of the sun was such that we could never have seen the reef before it was too late. Local people who helped us said that there would have been no chance. And on top of that, the tide was such that the water didn't break in front of the reef, so there were no waves to indicate that reef either.

So the charts said it was okay to go and it looked like it was okay to go and that's when we ran aground.

We overheard people talking about the stranded catamaran in the supermarket yesterday. They were looking at pictures on their camera at the same time, so we started talking to them. I hadn't seen the boat after it had come off the reef last night and when I saw the pictures of Next Life floating with the water up to the salon table, I felt sick.

The insurance's surveyor is coming today, so tonight, we will know more.

The hardest part for me, I think, will be to go back to the boat later today and see the full disaster first hand. Rolf says it will still take some time for the salvage company to lift the boat up, so that we can see whether there are any more personal items we can take off the boat. I'm full of hope while trying to prepare myself for the worst. We only took the bare necessities like documents, computer equipment and such, cash & credit cards and some pieces of clothing with us when we abandoned ship.
We left so much behind, I don't even want to think about it.

NEXT LIFE

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Check out the Navionics Web App chart and zoom in on the area. It looks to me like those dashed magenta lines are supposed to be routes. The other ends of those lines go to other harbors and cruising destinations.

Your right. From Navionics Web App chart it clearly looks like that is the preferred route to take

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Navionics on my ipad does have the magenta line labelled (when you click on it) as "centerline of a recommended route."
Hope their disclaimers are up to date

I certainly sympathize with the loss of boat, but even from the pictures the water looks shallow and reefy. I personally would have been going really slowly with watch on bow. I was not there, and do not in any way make this comment specifically to this situation-

But I have noticed the big safety difference between paper and e-charts is not the data. with paper charts, one's eyes are always out of the boat, trying to correlate visual cues with location and chart features. With e-charts, a real tendency comes to stare at the screen, to keep boat on a line, at the exclusion of interpreting cues from the surrounding environment, like shallow water ahead. Even if e-chart is correct, GPS is not always perfect.

I actually think I may start shutting off my chart plotter more this summer as I think my prior excellent DR skills have eroded since I installed the Garmin.

Sounds like a good idea from time to time. I was recently on a charter where the Captain navigated solely by e charts. Either on his Apple I phone or the laptop in the cabin. I observed he did spend a lot of time staring at the screens and not the seas around the boat. He often left the helm and sat at the table in front of the laptop while the boat was on autopilot. I was sitting in the cockpit enjoying a beer and observed a sport fisherman heading toward our boat pretty far off to port. I watched the Capt. who was in the cabin in front of the laptop to see how long it would take before he noticed it. It was crossing our bow before he looked up an saw it. I think we sometimes trust the technology a little too much and miss some of the things we use to notice a lot sooner.

[Lake-Effect]

That's sad. I'm just happy there was no injury or loss of life.

The question I have, is whether there are "official" government supplied charts available for that area, and whether such charts show the hazards.

We haven't sailed in that area yet, so we're trying to get a feel for what resources to trust.