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Old 27-11-2019, 09:21   #886
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
Breaking waves, how is the corporeal apparatus healing? Also what weather routing software do you use?
kind of you to ask

I just finished doing 3 sets of intervals: 10 minutes x 30/30's on zwift (indoor trainer). The left knee felt quite good, just a tiny bit sore, but it is well-muscled, semed to protect it well. The eye swelling is way down, and is just starting to open, but boy is it a black eye - looks like I have an eye patch on. Thats all pretty good. But the left hand is broke - closed fracture, cant grip - so cant ride outside until I can grip and brake - probably 4 to 6 weeks. Overall better than it could have been - my friends just tell me it is the cost of doing 8000 miles a year on the bike.

routing software . . . I wrote a longer post about this up thread . . . but the short answer is that I am using a very nice freeware package called qtVlm for this little project - it's lightweight and easy to use - fully capable for cruising usage. Offshore I mostly use a larger more extensive package called Adrena - it's what all the french pros use and I need to use the same as them when I have worked with them. qtVlm uses essentially the same routing math and will produce a near-identical route, but Adrena has a larger racing feature set like gates and condition boundaries and laylines and such. As folks here have mentioned opencpn also has a good routing model also incorporated in its free charting and weather package - which I need to learn to use sometime. Basically we have an abundance of good options and the key is to pick one and figure out how all the little bits work because there is a lot to it and most every little bit makes it more powerful in the real world.
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Old 27-11-2019, 09:39   #887
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

regarding going into the mid-40's . . . . it would make me a little uncomfortable in late November and I would prefer not to.

But staying south in the weather pattern we have had would be slower and that creates its own additional risk.

Right now North seems like a decent choice because #1 the current expected wind speed profile is pretty moderate and they are not expected to get clobbered - this is something to keep a close eye on graphically watching the development of the lows from far away:

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and #2 because of the likely e/ne winds starting around dec 1st . . . .see TWD along route profile this would be a real pain if you are due east of Lisbon for the finish:

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I personally would have been sorely tempted by the southern option a few days ago. But it was definitively slower, and it might not create enough separation in any case - eg you might still get clobbered on it if/when the northern route got clobbered, and you have the last week to deal with upwind.

Got to play the cards you are dealt.
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Old 27-11-2019, 10:03   #888
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Yes, aa I said yday , got to play the cards you are dealt , but I can’t see any surprise in the north ing , I have a very simple weather system page on internet , and from that I would have favoured more northerly route , my only prob was that it did not show as far ahead as you are using and a week ago really ran out just about north east of the Azores , still I would have taken that chance as the southerly route did not look much good at that time , things can change pretty quick and fcasts are not always reliable,,,,then dealt with the cards after the Azores,.
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Old 27-11-2019, 10:04   #889
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Outlook for noon 2 Dec as of now based on GFS, ECMWF, PWG and PWE models. They sort of agree on the general pattern, but widely diverge on the expected impact of the NE high. There storyline for the coming 4-5 days is far from being agreed.

(The green dot is Horta, barbs are on a 2deg grid)
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Old 27-11-2019, 10:13   #890
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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They sort of agree on the general pattern, but widely diverge on the ... (my paraphrase) details
Yea, agreed. There is a general picture emerging, but it is messy with difficult to forecast areas and the details are not clear. However from a routing perspective thinking about setting up for Ely/NEly winds into the finish seem the thing to do. They can re-evaluate after they get settled on the backside of the next low (whether to add more north or not).
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Old 27-11-2019, 10:14   #891
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by OldKetch View Post
Outlook for noon 2 Dec as of now based on GFS, ECMWF, PWG and PWE models.
Never rated the predict wind PWE & PWG models, day or 2 out they seemed hopeless though that was a while ago.

500mB seems to be hinting at chance of a cut off low around Spain next week,

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Old 27-11-2019, 10:20   #892
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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500mB seems to be hinting at chance of a cut off low around Spain next week,
Yup, thatís also an imprecise possibility - shown setting up in different possible locations. It is all a bit of a muddle atm.

For LVís sake I hope they donít have to drive into an easterly gale for the finish. That would suck.
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Old 27-11-2019, 10:27   #893
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Either way itís Social media, they are selling a product, itís not real, none of any of that stuff is.
Surely you donít think ďrealityĒ shows are real either?
https://www.boredpanda.com/instagram...mpaign=organic

This. The portrayal of their life on their social media is about as real as that of the Kardashians. They run a business and are no longer leading a cruising lifestyle that is anything like most other peopleís. Three things stand out to me:

1) Riley in particular is developing into a very good sailor in his own right. As he is self taught there is still lots of Ďnot knowing what he doesnít knowí, but the fact that he engaged a professional to help with this passage shows that he is aware of that. Kudos. Their use of weather and routing resources to guide this passage is a master class and is well worth following.

2) Absent a believable alternative, the decision to transport Greta across the N Atlantic in winter was a business decision. The business benefits are obvious and large. Maybe it aligns with their values, but not knowing them personally who knows what their true values are? Again, social media is a curated business, not reality.

3) Iím not a celebrity watcher, but Iím impressed by those who protect their kids from their parentís public exposure. Kids canít give consent to massive privacy breaches. The use of Lenny (why should we even know his name?) to burnish their social media image and expand their audience is smart business, but whatís it going to do to him as he grows up? Children of celebrities often have very difficult and crappy life outcomes. Several other YT couples are having kids and exposing them to their followers - if itís several thousand sailors maybe not such a big deal, but with the audience LV has theyíre heading into celebrity territory. Thatís no longer a healthy lifestyle, albeit lucrative.

Assuming a successful passage, maybe some of the catamaran naysayers will quiet down?
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Old 27-11-2019, 10:58   #894
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by txg View Post
Over the years we probably met not much less than hundred offshore sailing crews and all of them read books or watch movies when on watch.
I don't have a problem with reading, music (one ear), podcasts (one ear), or even LISTENING to movies (one ear) - who actually needs to watch Captain Ron again?

This is situational. If there is a lot of traffic distractions get set aside. If there is navigational risk (as in much of @Dockside's cruising grounds) no distractions.

That's different from maintaining light discipline. My crews are warned - look at me with your headlamp on at night and I confiscate it. I don't care about red or white - bright is a problem.

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For me, the La Vagabonde currently has a pretty big crew. Even with one person less because of handling the baby and with two of the other four being non-sailors this is a crew level that's probably above average for cruising boats crossing the Atlantic Ocean.
Passengers are more work than an empty boat. Two is a small crew and that seems to be all they really have.

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More thread drift, but interesting.
Not at all - seamanship was explicitly requested.

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Like you I sail with crew with variable experience and skill. I greatly prefer it when the boat is full of really good sailors who know the boat -- what I've had all this year -- but I can work with complete beginners also.
Sure. Judgment is most important. Responsiveness is high also - very unpleasant stories about crew who are sitting there listening (or not listening) to the autopilot beep which woke me up below and boiled up (3a, rain, underwear (tm)).

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I don't know why the Vag crew are not having Greta and her father stand such watches.
I don't understand either. It is apparent that Ms. Henderson is adult supervision. They could easily run eight watches 3-on/9-off or six 4-on/8-off and child care. Ms. Henderson would always be available for backup.

Put the Thunbergs to work.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Of course two crew incapable of a solo watch are no more capable of it when there are two of them. That's not the point of doubling watches. I double watches in rough weather when possible so that people can help each other and keep an eye on each other. And in certain other situations:

1. Heavy traffic. One at the helm and doing visual watch, the other (usually mean /sic/) operating radar and radio and making collision avoidance decisions.

2. Bad viz. One on visual watch one on radar.

3. Sailing in areas with fishing gear or other hazards in the water. Two is better than one when you really need an unblinking gaze forward. I often send one to the bow even.

4. At night with beginners. They keep each other company, keep an eye on each other, make each other coffee, and it helps keep them alert.
In my head 1, 2, and 3 are fundamentally the same - enough going on that an electronics watch in addition to a visual watch would overload one person.

For 4, I'll put the least experienced person with the most so there is learning. Depending on the bodies I have to work with that may mean I drop into a watch.

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
The problem some have with 3 on/3 off is when they limit themselves to sleeping just during the night time hours. You can easily get enough sleep if you keep this schedule running through the day and only pause for lunch and dinner when both are fully awake.
Militaries and commercial carriers have done a lot of research on sleep. Human beings need regular longer periods of sleep. It's one thing to get up to pee *sigh* and something entirely different to get up for a three or four hour watch. That disrupts your sleep cycle and has measurable impact on judgment and reaction time.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Turned out of course to be one long motoring run, only had sailing wind for a few hours, and then barely.
Which is where your guy could have really earned his pay. Light air sailing is as much art as science and a perfect skill for cruisers to cultivate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccannan View Post
Ellen MacArthur averaged 5.5 hours sleep a day during her 72 day round the world sail. Her daily sleep was typically broken up into 10 naps, a third taken during daylight hours. After more than 40 days, her sleep dropped to an average of 3.9 hours a day. Her sleep was monitored electronically for a study.

/snip/

On my 23 day, non-stop, solo Atlantic crossing from Norfolk, VA to Cadiz, Spain, I never slept less than 20 minutes or more than 40 minutes at a time. I was 48 and not in prime physical condition like McArthur probably was. While out of sight of land I only saw/detected 6 ships, and not a single other sailboat. I did make radio contact with a French boat departing the Azores at night as I sailed by. But I never saw them. I did however, see at least one seabird every day which still amazes me!
It's pretty easy to run the numbers for horizon to horizon time for commercial traffic on a reciprocal course. For the amount of sleeping you did--not enough to really get rested--you could well have missed traffic. I see much more traffic than you report.

I sailed seven days single-handed once with a fifteen minute alarm set. I'm not ever going to do that again. A good bit of traffic.
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:11   #895
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

It's been over 4 years of being a non sailor "wanna-be" lurking here on CF for me, but I finally created an account today so I can have the pleasure of ignoring some users. I feel part of learning, what works for me, is to gather lots of information/data and sort through it. And then sort though it again after gaining more knowledge OR practical experience. As I gain more data/experience, I get better at seeing what is garbage and what is relevant.

Discussions about parentage, pedantry about miles listed, the number of miles a person has or hasn't sailed, calling someone "child abusers" isn't useful data, it's noise. Noise gets in the way of learning and should be blocked when it can be. I can't stop the noise by shouting back at it louder and angrier, but I can put on earmuffs and block it......and feel only slightly better by loudly announcing that I am doing so....

When you learn a new skill, do you want one teacher, who believes there is a right way or a wrong way, a my way or the highway? For those that believe that, my nature is to think i can get the same knowledge from someone with a better attitude. I'm not talking about learning a skill like tying a knot that has a right or wrong, but about seamanship, leadership, etc.

Since I am here, before I go lurk again, I will share wise words that might be fit for all to consider-
(Caps added for emphasis by me)

"After poring over the weather we made the decision to intentionally slow down to ensure we miss the worst of the front ahead - we will be holding closer to 6 knots for a few more days. Itís an unfamiliar position for me to be in - when you are racing, the idea of intentionally slowing down is almost unheard of. . . . being restricted to a certain speed feels very limiting.

But there is no doubt onboard - this is the right decision. It is safe and it is comfortable and these are without a doubt the priority. I have learned a lot from Riley - seeing how easily he made that decision - and how at peace he was with it once he made it. Unwavering confidence - and yet a humble openness to suggestion. Both qualities in my opinion that make an impeccable leader. Itís reminded me how important it is to take the backseat from being in charge; THERE IS ALWAYS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO DO SOMETHING."

Nikki Henderson --Day 6 - November 19 at 10:42 AM - Facebook

Of course, I'm only familiar with her public resume, I'm not on the boat with them or can read their minds and intentions from across an ocean, so, sure, maybe it's true that ". . . she might be a boob that uses a headlamp on bright with three LEDs." as someone posted so recently......
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:23   #896
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

My wife and I generally sail as two and we have settled on a 6-on, 6-off routine under most conditions. That allows about 5 hours of solid sleep for each of us during the night and another 3 hours or so during the day. While we are happy to reach a quiet anchorage we in general feel rested during a passage.

To my mind there are two things that make this possible:
  • A good autopilot/self-steering system. We would not be able to keep this schedule if we had to hand steer the whole 6 hours.
  • Conservative sail management to reduce (but not eliminate) the chances of having to wake the off watch for a sail change.

It means we proceed more slowly than the boat is able, because we reef early and un-reef late. LV seems to be using a similar tactic. Personally I wouldn't be using a 2/2 or 3/3 night watch schedule with essentially two watchstanders, BTDT, but if it works for them....

Having a third person aboard, even if they only stand watch during the day is a game changer. We've had a few passages with others aboard who were comfortable on the boat but not with night work. It still allows a little leisure/relaxation that is much harder to get with two.
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:26   #897
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

wise words Mr NB ,, some disgusting rants on here from those that you would expect better from ,,, but just in time for your post i have , as has been suggested , stopped reading ( not using ignore as it sometimes worth knowing the warped jaundiced mind set / character of some members ) the bile coming from some very ( i can only imagine ) jealous people . i hope that i and perhaps yourself can enjoy and participate in what was a very worth while thread.. good luck and i hope that you can one day ( soon ) buy yourself a catamaran , and then you will find more opinionated nonsense !!
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:27   #898
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La Vagabonde's crossing

[QUOTE=Night Boss;3024554]It's been over 4 years of being a non sailor "wanna-be" lurking here on CF for me, but I finally created an account today so I can have the pleasure of ignoring some users. I feel part of learning, what works for me, is to gather lots of information/data and sort through it. And then sort though it again after gaining more knowledge OR practical experience. As I gain more data/experience, I get better at seeing what is garbage and what is relevant.



Discussions about parentage, pedantry about miles listed, the number of miles a person has or hasn't sailed, calling someone "child abusers" isn't useful data, it's noise. Noise gets in the way of learning and should be blocked when it can be. I can't stop the noise by shouting back at it louder and angrier, but I can put on earmuffs and block it......and feel only slightly better by loudly announcing that I am doing so....



When you learn a new skill, do you want one teacher, who believes there is a right way or a wrong way, a my way or the highway? For those that believe that, my nature is to think i can get the same knowledge from someone with a better attitude. I'm not talking about learning a skill like tying a knot that has a right or wrong, but about seamanship, leadership, etc.



Since I am here, before I go lurk again, I will share wise words that might be fit for all to consider-

(Caps added for emphasis by me)



"After poring over the weather we made the decision to intentionally slow down to ensure we miss the worst of the front ahead - we will be holding closer to 6 knots for a few more days. Itís an unfamiliar position for me to be in - when you are racing, the idea of intentionally slowing down is almost unheard of. . . . being restricted to a certain speed feels very limiting.



But there is no doubt onboard - this is the right decision. It is safe and it is comfortable and these are without a doubt the priority. I have learned a lot from Riley - seeing how easily he made that decision - and how at peace he was with it once he made it. Unwavering confidence - and yet a humble openness to suggestion. Both qualities in my opinion that make an impeccable leader. Itís reminded me how important it is to take the backseat from being in charge; THERE IS ALWAYS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO DO SOMETHING."



Nikki Henderson --Day 6 - November 19 at 10:42 AM - Facebook



Of course, I'm only familiar with her public resume, I'm not on the boat with them or can read their minds and intentions from across an ocean, so, sure, maybe it's true that ". . . she might be a boob that uses a headlamp on bright with three LEDs." as someone posted so recently......[/ (end quote)




Iíve never used the ignore feature on any forums as at some point the person I ignored may have something useful to say.
Take atoll for example. I donít agree with a lot of his opinions on this thread but he has passed out a huge amount of appreciable knowledge on other threads, and letís face it, heís entitled to his opinion no matter what.
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:32   #899
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
My wife and I generally sail as two and we have settled on a 6-on, 6-off routine under most conditions. That allows about 5 hours of solid sleep for each of us during the night and another 3 hours or so during the day. While we are happy to reach a quiet anchorage we in general feel rested during a passage.

To my mind there are two things that make this possible:
  • A good autopilot/self-steering system. We would not be able to keep this schedule if we had to hand steer the whole 6 hours.
  • Conservative sail management to reduce (but not eliminate) the chances of having to wake the off watch for a sail change.

It means we proceed more slowly than the boat is able, because we reef early and un-reef late. LV seems to be using a similar tactic. Personally I wouldn't be using a 2/2 or 3/3 night watch schedule with essentially two watchstanders, BTDT, but if it works for them....

Having a third person aboard, even if they only stand watch during the day is a game changer. We've had a few passages with others aboard who were comfortable on the boat but not with night work. It still allows a little leisure/relaxation that is much harder to get with two.
i think one of the more repeatable opinions was tho that that is suitable for shorter passages but not for ocean / extended ones, myself being short handed and not one of the " big " boys can appreciate where you are coming from , but can also see their point ,, however ii can only wonder how the likes of the Hisskocks , the Smeatons etc etc ever managed to get out of the harbour according to these know alls
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:47   #900
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

SMJ,,, wholly and totally disagree ,, if atoll wishes to stand face to face with Riley and openly doubt his wifes fidelity then i would respect him more however if Riley is anything like most australian males i have met they do not take kindly to any one talking about their " sheilas " like that , especially a limey , and i do not think it would end well for dear mr atoll , at all at all
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