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Old 27-11-2019, 06:32   #871
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Having only been in Falmouth a few times I am not sure what people are like in your area ( I would only hope that you are not representative of them ) but here after what you have been saying behind their backs any offer of help would get a short and unpleasant for you stiff reply .
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Old 27-11-2019, 06:33   #872
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

To clarify on the watch schedule - it appears Nikkiís recent post about 3 on / 3 off is specific to the nighttime routine. One of her earlier posts relayed that ďThe nature of the sailing meant Riley spent the day catching up on sleep, and taking some time to write journals, organise belongings, write emails and so on. Svante and Elayna held watch for a few hours each - itís good to share the load.Ē
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Old 27-11-2019, 06:36   #873
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
They have the people. With three people you can do 4 on and 8 off, thatís sustainable, but 2 or 3 on and off isnít, not for longer than a couple of days.

When we delivered my boat, I hired a Pro to go with us, his rule was two in the cockpit and 2 hour shifts at night, well that meant 4 hours in the cockpit, and only 2 hours off, second night I nixed that, in stormy weather maybe, but just normal weather it wasnít sustainable.

If you get really fatigued your immunities break down, youíll get sick, and then your dead exhausted and sick.
Exhausted people donít make good decisions, thatís why in flying crew rest is mandated.

A Mom and Pop crew just canít in my opinion go long distances with 100% crew watch, and yes I know people single hand too, but both in my opinion if they let the truth be known get more than an hour or so sleep at a time, with only 2 hours off by the time you change over, go to the bathroom, and take a few minutes to go to sleep, your only asleep for not much longer than an hour.
I believe the boat is watching herself at times with only a couple or single handed

What kind of pro was that? That's ridiculous and what you did was absolutely right.


All of this is why having at least 3 people on board capable of keeping a watch is a real watershed into a sustainable and even pleasant rhythm of life on board, from what is exhausting and stressful. I never sail shorthanded over long distances if I can possibly avoid it. I have friends who are presently circumnavigating with just two on board and that just seems like nuts to me.


You are right -- two on board is basically enhanced single handing. Fine for an overnighter but I certainly prefer more crew for longer than that.
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Old 27-11-2019, 06:43   #874
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Lol, this sounds a little bit like a tantrum in itself Cherod.[emoji4]

Those of us who have shared many threads over the years probably get a better sense of when someone known to us, is being 'tongue in cheek' with their comments or simply baiting the righteous indignation generated by those words, with some crafted barbs.

We have the history of their previous comments and actions in helping other members to judge their character.

Atol has earned respect for his actions over the years so while not a fan, I do give him some attitude latitude!

This still is a great thread so just ignore what you dislike and stay positive[emoji106]
Well my bad , perhaps I should not extend commonly held levels of common decency to this forum , perhaps that is why some established members are getting away with some ( commonly ) unacceptable behaviour , to call into question the virtuous of anybodyís wife is , in the least ,extremely rude and ungentlemanly behaviour , and atoll might like to remember that should he ever come face to face with those whom he seems at will to demean , and that everyone is not nessassarily likely to cut him as much latitude as his apologists on here , again , shame on you atoll ( and some others )
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Old 27-11-2019, 06:50   #875
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

The problem some have with 3 on/3 off is when they limit themselves to sleeping just during the night time hours. You can easily get enough sleep if you keep this schedule running through the day and only pause for lunch and dinner when both are fully awake.

It sounds like they are doing just that on La Vaga.

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Old 27-11-2019, 07:00   #876
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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What kind of pro was that? That's ridiculous and what you did was absolutely right.

Local guy in Daytona who I think taught sailing etc. maybe did a delivery every now and again. He didnít hold himself out any kind of Professional Ocean crossing type and I didnít expect him to be, we were only taking the boat around Fl, but that pull from Key West to Panama City is a decent crossing.
I hired him because remember I had never sat foot on a sailboat before, except the ones I was looking to buy, I had never sailed, and of course it seemed prudent to have someone along who knew how, and of course we expected to be taught how to sail on the way too.
Turned out of course to be one long motoring run, only had sailing wind for a few hours, and then barely.
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Old 27-11-2019, 07:33   #877
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

two routings today. The top one is using my prior settings 'race mode' no motoring ever. The lower one I have turned on the motor sailing module - allowing the routing to motor sail to bridge light air gaps (watching boat speed vs wind, I suspect they have been using a little motor assist in the past to bridge dead spots - common prudent practice on this sort of passage especially when they can probably use some battery charging anyway).

In both cases, they sail NE until around 2am (UTC) when they start coming out of the lighter wind field and start picking up the edge of the next low, and then turn due east (weather pictured here with x for boat positions)

Click image for larger version

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from there they sail about due east until mid-night the 28th, and start climbing ne again. They are in decently strong westerly winds (just settled in after rotating from SW).

Weather picture of turn point:

Click image for larger version

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Then they climb NE again until late the 29th to try to avoid the center of this pocket high pressure system.

Picture 29th

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Then they a somewhat messy looking weather picture but which basically allows a near-direct run into Lisbon in E to NE winds
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Old 27-11-2019, 08:26   #878
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

As of 16.00 gmt still heading north ( ish ) , maybe going to get a polar bear to take to the conference !!��
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Old 27-11-2019, 08:30   #879
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
........

A Mom and Pop crew just canít in my opinion go long distances with 100% crew watch, and yes I know people single hand too, but both in my opinion if they let the truth be known get more than an hour or so sleep at a time, with only 2 hours off by the time you change over, go to the bathroom, and take a few minutes to go to sleep, your only asleep for not much longer than an hour.
I believe the boat is watching herself at times with only a couple or single handed
Crews vary a lot on how much sleep they need, how well they handle night watches, and what watch scheme works best for them. Most Mom and Pop crews who regularly do offshore passages have worked out a watch scheme that is effective for them and flexible enough to deal with the changing conditions. They don't arrive exhausted and do keep a pretty decent watch. Even well crewed naval ships don't make the 100% cutoff, nor do the typically lightly manned commercial traffic, so there's no point in setting this as the bar for Mom and Pop cruisers.
For our passages we start out with shorter watches and work into doing 5 to 6 hour watches. This gives the off watch plenty of time to get some decent sleep and in most conditions the on watch is not having too bad a time.
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Old 27-11-2019, 08:31   #880
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Breaking Waves View Post
two routings today. The top one is using my prior settings 'race mode' no motoring ever. The lower one I have turned on the motor sailing module - allowing the routing to motor sail to bridge light air gaps (watching boat speed vs wind, I suspect they have been using a little motor assist in the past to bridge dead spots - common prudent practice on this sort of passage especially when they can probably use some battery charging anyway).

In both cases, they sail NE until around 2am (UTC) when they start coming out of the lighter wind field and start picking up the edge of the next low, and then turn due east (weather pictured here with x for boat positions)

Attachment 203838

from there they sail about due east until mid-night the 28th, and start climbing ne again. They are in decently strong westerly winds (just settled in after rotating from SW).

Weather picture of turn point:

Attachment 203839

Then they climb NE again until late the 29th to try to avoid the center of this pocket high pressure system.

Picture 29th

Attachment 203840

Then they a somewhat messy looking weather picture but which basically allows a near-direct run into Lisbon in E to NE winds
Breaking waves, how is the corporeal apparatus healing? Also what weather routing software do you use?
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Old 27-11-2019, 08:36   #881
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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As of 16.00 gmt still heading north ( ish ) , maybe going to get a polar bear to take to the conference !!��
They are only around 41.75N. Breaking Waves' analysis suggests that they may go as far North as 45N. Funny to recall that a week or so ago there was a suggestion that they might have agreed not to go beyond 40N
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Old 27-11-2019, 08:58   #882
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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You can't keep that up for long. Just not enough sleep.
Ellen MacArthur averaged 5.5 hours sleep a day during her 72 day round the world sail. Her daily sleep was typically broken up into 10 naps, a third taken during daylight hours. After more than 40 days, her sleep dropped to an average of 3.9 hours a day. Her sleep was monitored electronically for a study.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ng.sciencenews


I would agree watchkeeping suffers while singlehanding, and her kind of schedule can't be maintained indefinitely, but it is effective and not terribly difficult to emulate.

On my 23 day, non-stop, solo Atlantic crossing from Norfolk, VA to Cadiz, Spain, I never slept less than 20 minutes or more than 40 minutes at a time. I was 48 and not in prime physical condition like McArthur probably was. While out of sight of land I only saw/detected 6 ships, and not a single other sailboat. I did make radio contact with a French boat departing the Azores at night as I sailed by. But I never saw them. I did however, see at least one seabird every day which still amazes me!
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Old 27-11-2019, 09:07   #883
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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They have the people. With three people you can do 4 on and 8 off, thatís sustainable, but 2 or 3 on and off isnít, not for longer than a couple of days.
3 on 3 off, theoretically up to 12 hours of sleep per day. That sounds doable? We did 4 on 4 off with two couples and it felt quite sustainable (and obviously less lonely than being alone).

How do the Dashews do it?
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Old 27-11-2019, 09:10   #884
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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You think that's something, between June 3 and August 7 of this year their website reports 8169 miles - that's twice across the Atlantic and then some.

June 7 '17 - 31074
June 12 '18 - 51053
June 3 '19 - 80226
August 7 '19 - 88395
November 13 '19 - 90325
Today - 81395

Maybe the relative motion of the rotation of the earth at their latitude is in the count as well.
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Old 27-11-2019, 09:19   #885
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Most probably they are unaware. And if not, my guess is they would just shrug their shoulders. At least Greta Thunberg is used to MUCH more negative comments from adult males. And also from VERY MUCH more influential adult males (Putin, Trump, etc)
[Sigh]. You and others bemoan the off-topic politics and other issues introduced into the thread, yet here we are. At least we've managed to drop "white" and "middle-aged" as stereotypes. You mean there aren't any adult females who aren't also critical of the simplistic, sanctimonious, binary nature of Greta's presentation of the CC issue at the UN and elsewhere?

I agree that the viciousness of many in social media and elsewhere is not only regrettable but also worrisome for a 16 year-old, especially one who may be uniquely sensitive to criticism. But for many responsible adults regardless of their age, race, gender, or political orientation, the type of attention the Greta phenomenom is producing is counter-productive. This has nothing to do with how much they care about the environment, or what their color, gender, race or age happens to be. And it's certainly not intended as a personal slight against Greta herself. To suggest otherwise is just silly, divisive stuff that detracts from the seriousness of the underlying issue.

As already noted, many thanks to you and a couple of others (and a speedy recovery for BW) for all the valuable posts on weather routing, along with snippets from Facebook posts, etc. that are worthwhile insights into life onboard. Maybe stick with that, especially if you want others to do the same.
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