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Old 08-12-2018, 00:46   #61
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

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iSailor is still a decent app, free to download and update (the app), and you have to pay for chart folios as you always have down with it. That’s no different to any other app that I know of, especially for areas that don’t have free charts in any format. So if you’re all pissed off at iSailor for charging for updates (and that’s only if you opt in to updates) what’s your alternative?

With iSailor you also have to pay for data connections and that really brings the price up, so in my case that’s the deal breaker and I’ll be trying SEAiq and some others.

I’ve been running iSailor just fine with a non-updated chart folio and I do have automatic updates turned on in the App Store but have turned off app updates in iTunes and that seems to have done the trick to not update and charge for the purchased chart folio.

Social media beat up of a company (or person or whatever) is so snowflake and will be remembered as a 20-teens phenomenon that thankfully passed out of favour relatively quickly (I can only hope). Vote with your feet and pick another app; what do you care what its rating is in the App Store?
We are pissed off because they want us to pay more now for an annual subscription than what we paid for the charts. Now many of you have 1 folio but a few of us have most if the world charts it will cost us a fortune to update . We bought the app & charts because of the free updates & many like myself contributed to those updates supplying new data. If i buy something then they want me to pay for it again & again im not going to be happy about it. I understand that some prople will have unlimited funds & to them it will seem like we are carrying on but most of us are sailors we spend our money on boats we will always be poor.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:11   #62
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

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We are pissed off because they want us to pay more now for an annual subscription than what we paid for the charts. Now many of you have 1 folio but a few of us have most if the world charts it will cost us a fortune to update . We bought the app & charts because of the free updates & many like myself contributed to those updates supplying new data. If i buy something then they want me to pay for it again & again im not going to be happy about it. I understand that some prople will have unlimited funds & to them it will seem like we are carrying on but most of us are sailors we spend our money on boats we will always be poor.

You’re conflating two issues here.

You can continue to use iSailor with all of your already purchased charts and not pay anything more - just don’t update the charts. Simple. For now, that’s what I’m doing - quit with the wealthy trope. Or, just update the charts for the area in which you’re currently located - it’s not like you’re simultaneously boating in every chart area that you have (actually, I don’t know if you can selectively purchase updates for some but not all charts, and I also don’t know whether you’re a worldwide delivery skipper liable to be using charts for widely different areas of the world).

You are upset that they have changed their terms and now charge for chart updates. Yes, that’s upsetting, but really, is it that big of a deal? It’s not open source software and companies often change their business models.

Are there any other apps that provide you with free chart updates? If so, easy switch, as while you’ll have to pay for a new set of charts you will get the free updates you seem to feel is your right. If nobody else offers free updates, then what’s the difference whether you continue to use iSailor or switch to a different app?

Buying and updating charts, the same as buying annual tide and current tables and other such navigation aides, or annual insurance, or a host of other things, are just part of the cost of going to sea in boats.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:19   #63
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

You might be able to get buy with outdated charts but where I sail in and around the Great Barrier Reef things change a lot . Lots of ship movements with hundreds of ships moving coal , gas & Iorn ore. New navigation beacons are added every year.
I know i can use the old ones but I bought a service came with free updates . I only bought the Italy & Messina a few months ago. If they had asked for $10 a year it would have been acceptable but $50 is way too much.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:23   #64
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

I tell you what why dont you pay for my updates . If money is not a problem im willing to accept charity now that im retired with nothing coming in .
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:27   #65
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

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You might be able to get buy with outdated charts but where I sail in and around the Great Barrier Reef things change a lot . Lots of ship movements with hundreds of ships moving coal , gas & Iorn ore. New navigation beacons are added every year.
I know i can use the old ones but I bought a service came with free updates . I only bought the Italy & Messina a few months ago. If they had asked for $10 a year it would have been acceptable but $50 is way too much.
You could go 'old school' ..
http://www.hydro.gov.au/n2m/2018/edi...-1106_2018.pdf
Australian Hydrographic Office - Australian Notices to Mariners 2018

Free for you and I am sure also free for Wartsila..
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:33   #66
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

I am old school thats why Im complaining about these guys ripping us off & yes that's how I will get around it. What annoys me the most is that we helped them
by telling others to buy it. There best salesmen were the users then they do this to us. Betrayal is the word .
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:50   #67
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

Sad but probably not unsurprising. The irritating thing, though, is that the annual charge is about the same as what I paid originally for the chart. You would have thought that there might be a discount for existing subscribers. Even more irritating is that my updates stop(ped) in March 2018...so I don’t even get a “credit” for being a long term user.
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Old 08-12-2018, 14:44   #68
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

We can keep the pressure up they are starting to fold the app has dropped to 2 .
If you go to the App store & write a review & start rating. The cant keep holding out there is no cash flow coming in & the Wurtsila brand is suffering severe damage.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:12   #69
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

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You’re conflating two issues here.


You are upset that they have changed their terms and now charge for chart updates. Yes, that’s upsetting, but really, is it that big of a deal? It’s not open source software and companies often change their business models.

You didn't get it exactly right:



I'm upset because I believe they are breaking a contract we have entered: I bought chart folios including free future updates. The updates are part of the deal, not a nice add-on on their discretion.



Of course they are free to change terms for future chart sales - and have to be competitive with it in the market. Given the current price tags I doubt they will be competitive - but that is not the current point of anger.



I think it's worth a discussion with them, and I see no reason not to discuss it in public - especially as they have chosen Facebook as a communication channel toward their customers. I would wish the discussions would be let in fair and good style, exchanging arguments instead of offenses and see a majority of contributions being like that.



Also I personally decided to postpone a bad rating on the App Store since I'd like to give them the chance to correct their decision and a bad rating can't be undone. If you read through the newest ratings (at least in the german Appstore) most of the users give 1 star and say "Wonderful app, but they fooled existing customer base", nearly nobody is saying that the app is crap itself. Which is fair....
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:30   #70
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

hi stheel
You are the only customer of Isailor on all the forums across the world including Face Book who thinks Wartsila should be able to change their terms & charge what they feel like. Perhaps you have a vested intrest is Wartsila looking at buying Predict Wind a NZ product & the current conditions may limit the revenue from that sale. Perhaps you should state your affiliations .
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:30   #71
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

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hi stheel
You are the only customer of Isailor on all the forums across the world including Face Book who thinks Wartsila should be able to change their terms & charge what they feel like. Perhaps you have a vested intrest is Wartsila looking at buying Predict Wind a NZ product & the current conditions may limit the revenue from that sale. Perhaps you should state your affiliations .

Relax my friend...

I do not have any affiliations with them. I'm just trying to be precise.



I'm totally upset how they handle their existing customer base and am not willing to accept that. But on the other hand we must accept that every company is free to change the conditions of future sales. They just need to accept market's reaction on that.
And I don't mean update services for already bought chart folios here, but only completely new transactions. I don't like what they do but it's their right to change it. It looks like they will loose the majority of their user base by doing so but there is no legal way to restrain them from doing so...
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Old 14-12-2018, 13:01   #72
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

So eventually the sqeaky hinge gets some oil. We now get free updates till August 29 2019. I will continue to push for a lower annual subscription fee after this date. I recieved this email overnight.
Mike
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Old 14-12-2018, 14:18   #73
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

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So eventually the sqeaky hinge gets some oil. We now get free updates till August 29 2019. I will continue to push for a lower annual subscription fee after this date. I recieved this email overnight.
Mike
Well done!
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Old 14-12-2018, 14:39   #74
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

I too received the "free update "email overnight. I have updated my current portfolio. Lets see what happens next re the charge to update.
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Old 14-12-2018, 14:56   #75
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Re: ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

Ditto re updating although I received no email....

Meanwhile i have just brought this to their attention....

No better than old 'burgle brand' C-Map in some areas.... this is Pen. Tres Montes..

Error in this shot is about a mile in long and half a mile in lat....

Next anchorage was the same and we arrived there in the dark....

PS... these need rotating clockwise 90*... sorry bout that...
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