iPad and Navionics Question

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

It's not confusion, it's objection.

iNavX does not sell charts.

Including them in sweeping statements is, therefore, simply not accurate.

The rest of my comments have been counter-examples, designed to show that it is not iNavX that you have an issue with.

"I have a problem with my ex-wife" contains a lot more precision than "I have a problem with women", which includes your wife.

You don't have a problem with iNavX. (My wife.) You have a problem with charts that you bought. (Your ex-wife.)


Because I'm used to the way they look, and I can't escape the feeling that I'm missing data on vector charts, in spite of the fact that just the opposite could be (or is) true.

There is another reason. That reason is that the vector charts are not as mature as the raster charts are. The formats are different, the symbols are different, and the feeling that data is missing is inescapable.

The last reason is that there simply isn't a good vector chart app out there for iPad, in my opinion. Vector charts are much, much slower on a given platform than the equivalent raster chart. (In my experience.)

There is no chance I'll buy anything further from Navionics. I don't care for their formats, their updating, or, as much as it pains me to agree with Simon and Kiwi's poorly expressed opinions, their policies about licensing.

INavx is at fault. It is their app.

Put it this way: If I went to a restaurant and sat at a table and ordered a meal, got up and moved to another table, and they charged me twice for the same meal just because I "changed tables", whom do you think I am going to complain to? The wholesalers whom provide the food to the restaurant, or the restaurant itself?

So, here is the analogy in real simple terms for you mate: X-traverse is the food wholesaler (the charts), Inavx is the service provider (the restaurant).

If Inavx are providing the service it is up to them to figure out a better solution with their chart provider--either find a different chart provider than X-traverse, or they figure out a better licensing agreement with X-traverse so that, us, the consumer, does not charge twice just because you "change" your Ipad. Until they do that, I don't buy their app, I buy an app from a service provider who have a better arrangement with their wholesale chart provider whereby I don't get charged twice just for changing my ipad model.
Is that so hard to understand?

[LBW399]

Ok, I just upgraded from Ipad 3 and Mini, to the new Ipad air. Got it Jammer? Two existing devices make way for the new 3rd device, being the Ipad Air.

I have the Transas iSailor nav app.
All I need to do is reinstall the app onto my new Ipad air.
And then - straight from the iSailor manual, here is all I need to do to get those charts (currently on my old two iPad devices) back without paying for them again - no "licensing for two devices only" crap.

Follow the “Restore” procedure:
• Run the “iSailor”;
• Check that the price information is available for the all the "Paid" folios;
• Tap the lower right corner of the screen;
• In the Settings menu select the “Chart store” item;
• Tap the “Re-install initially purchased folios(s)” button;
• Tap the “Restore” button.

That's it. No "rebuying" just because I am onto my third iPad using their nav app. This may not apply to your government raster charts that you use with the iNavx app, I don't know and really don't care. I am talking about world wide vector charts.

Right Jammer, I mean no disrespect, but if you still don't think Invax has a problem, then I can't help you bud.

Good day.

[Jammer Six]

Man, you just don't get this...

I'm amazed.

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

Man, you just don't get this...

I'm amazed.

No man, you don't get it. You don't get it because all you are worried about is your government charts for your local sailing area. You do realise that some sailors want charts for other multiple countries, whereby you then only really have one choice for vector charts through Inavx - being X-traverse?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that if the otherwise excellent iNavx app company don't sort out another chart provider who does not make you "re-buy" charts when you go to a 3rd Ipad device, that it is that company that has the problem?

Sheesh.

[LBW399]

In fact, here is a direct quote about this very issue that I just found on web chiles sailing site where he is talking about the very same issue that he has with iNavx app and the charts - he has apparently just upgraded to the iPad mini air:

"The charts will continue to be useable on my iPad 3 and iPad Mini Retina as long as they function; but if more than a year from now, I want to upgrade, I’ll have to buy the charts again.
I wrote back that this is analogous to Apple requiring a user to rebuy all the music he has purchased from the iTunes store each time he buys a new computer at greater than one year intervals".

--

Clearly, what iNavx need to do is find more than once source of Vector charts to use with their app - because I hear it really is an excellent app, apart from this issue.

[Glenn.Brooks]

Originally Posted by FlyMeAway

I had iNavX and was using the NOAA raster charts, and found them impossibly slow on my iPad and iPhone. Switched to Navionics vector (as the app, not from X-Trav) and found the speed hugely improved and the charts much more usable.

generally speaking Raster data files are huge in size compared with similar vector files- requiring significantly greater processing power. also, Raster and vector applications process the data formats with different software modules. So perhaps your iPad processor cant handle the larger raster file sizes. Also it's possible the iNavX new raster software module isnt handling the raster format efficiently. No way to know without emailing the developer and letting them about poor performance issue. Maybe it is something they can fix by rewriting their raster code...

[2Ripples]

Kiwi, I agree with you 100% - it's ridiculous to have to repay for the same charts when you change your "hardware", and you should be able to re-download on new device, but do you agree it would be fair that the charts on the old device no longer work ? It's very do-able if INavx and X-traverse would want to do it - not sure they want to do it though.
It's like the ITune music, you can have up to 5 devices, pick whichever ones you want.
Would not mind the "2 device" limitation IF I could pick / change the 2 devices over time.

So my question, after reading this long thread, iSailor looks like a good choice. Have you used iNavx ? And is there any key feature missing in iSailor and vice-versa ?

The chart licensing issue (outside the US where I will be sailing) is a clear show-stopper for me going with iNavx

[Glenn.Brooks]

Apparently there is now another nav program that may equal INAVX in functionality, plus the app is configured to accept both ENC and RNC chart formats. Google SEAiq.

Also see www.openseachart.org open source web site that lists all known free electronic chart sources, that SEAiq.com accesses to update chart information.

I haven't used either INavX or SeaIQ yet, just have done some homework, but it appears SEAIQ resolves the issues about paying multiple times for chart downloads, that others have been complaining about, to the extent that charts are freely available anyway.

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks

Apparently there is now another nav program that may equal INAVX in functionality, plus the app is configured to accept both ENC and RNC chart formats. Google SEAiq.

Also see www.openseachart.org open source web site that lists all known free electronic chart sources, that SEAiq.com accesses to update chart information.

I haven't used either INavX or SeaIQ yet, just have done some homework, but it appears SEAIQ resolves the issues about paying multiple times for chart downloads, that others have been complaining about, to the extent that charts are freely available anyway.

There is no issue there.

Free raster charts work perfectly in iNavX.

There are people who don't know the difference between the charts and the app, but iNavX uses free raster charts perfectly.

I used SeaIQ for the first time last week.

It has a couple interesting things that iNavX doesn't, most noticeably a way to update charts by hand to the very latest LNMs. A quite complete method of "Mariner's Notes" with appropriate symbols makes it fairly easy. The only thing missing is a method to draw boundaries.

It ran considerably slower than iNavX does, and it quilts both ENCs and RNCs, while iNavX loads different charts individually.

The quilting was, I think, responsible for a lot of the lag, and the quilting created problems of it's own-- there were places where charts were partially loaded, and different zoom levels could create views that the quilting algorithms had trouble resolving, and the result could be overlapping.

It also tended to put either too much or too little on the screen where soundings were concerned in ENC views.

I can't get used to ENC views, no matter how hard I try. I can't shake the feeling that I'm missing data, because I'm too used to raster charts.

I want to like ENCs, I think they're the way of the future, and I think the potential for touch screen plotters is beyond enormous.

[Glenn.Brooks]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

I used SeaIQ for the first time last week.

It ran considerably slower than iNavX does, and it quilts both ENCs and RNCs, while iNavX loads different charts individually.

The quilting was, I think, responsible for a lot of the lag, and the quilting created problems of it's own-- there were places where charts were partially loaded, and different zoom levels could create views that the quilting algorithms had trouble resolving, and the result could be overlapping.

Sounds like a memory issue with iPad. Maybe ipad doesn't have enuf horsepower to handle all the functionality, or all the chart layers that the seaIQ app allows you to activate. In the old days with GIS, we had similar hardware problems e.g. Slow and incomplete refresh rates when changing views, or panning to new sets of data. If INAVX is reading only one chart at a time and the SeaIQ is trying to display say 10 or 15 charts when zooming, then INAVX might appear more robust, as it is processing a smaller data set...

Maybe you could relay your experiences to the developer's web site, so he could potentially improve the way the app processes the data? These small developers usually appreciate feedback from users as it's often the only way they can discover bugs or performance issues with the many various hardware configurations.

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks

Maybe you could relay your experiences to the developer's web site, so he could potentially improve the way the app processes the data? These small developers usually appreciate feedback from users as it's often the only way they can discover bugs or performance issues with the many various hardware configurations.

Be my guest.

It's not what I do. I'm a consumer, not a tester. I pay to use the app, I don't get paid to use it.

[2Ripples]

How big are the map files themselves from Navionics ?
Say the 3GX Gold maps that cover South FL and the Caribean ? Or any other example.
(have looked for the answer, can't find it)

Looking to buy an IPAD2 + Cellular ($529) with 16GB, versus going for the new iPAD Air at $729 - don't think I need the "power" of the iPAD Air, and want to figure out if 16GB is enough

[GPSNavX]

16 GB is plenty for the app and Navionics marine charts (not maps). 3XG takes about 600 MB (i.e. less than 1 GB). The entire NOAA RNC catalog takes about 4GB.

[StuM]

> How big are the map files themselves from Navionics ?

Depends on the specific areas you download. I have both the Aus/NZ and Asia/Africa HD apps on my android tablet.

The charts take about 500MB for what I have currently downloaded. That includes East and North coasts of Australia; most of the area Fiji to Java including PNG, Solomons, New Caledonia, and "New Hebrides", Arafura, Banda and Coral Seas; New Zealand NI; bits of Malaysia/Thailand.

[tbkahuna]

Get a tablet with real GPS and you won't need any connection.