I-Sailor price increase

[ItDepends]

I have used I-Sailor for a long time. I really liked having a second opinion on the Navionics charts on my MFD, and a simple and functional tablet interface. The prices for the area subscriptions was reasonable, usually between US$3 and US$8 per year. My total annual bill came to about $90. Less than my Navionics updates.

All that just changed. Where I was paying $2.99 for the Chesapeake, the annual subscription rate just went to $25. Where I was paying $7 for the Bahama, it’s now $99 a year..

What was $90 total is now over $800!!!!!

I am seriously considering dumping it.

[NaClyDog]

Subscription software companies are like drug dealers. They lure you in, get you hooked and then... WHAM.


It's all about the bottom line.

[PippaB]

I left iSailor when it was purchased by Wärtsilä. Maybe the Transas model of free chart updates forever was unsustainable, but the handwriting was pretty clear when those of us who had made such purchases had to fight with Wärtsilä to get them honored, and then not in full.

Too bad, as it was the best commercial option we found and liked to carry it as a secondary source with different charts.

[ranger58sb]

And iSailor no long works on the newer Android systems... and the most recent version that does work (on an older Android OS) was flawed, too.

FWIW, we use AquaMap (vector) and MX Mariner (raster) as our backups on tablets, and TimeZero on a Windows PC for planning and additional backup.

TZ uses the same chart files we have on our plotter. (The iThing version of TZ apparently works differently, though...)

-Chris

[s/v Jedi]

This sure will kill the product. I haven’t paid any yearly fees ever because I don't need updates for the charts I have, but I’ll never pay that.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This sure will kill the product. I haven’t paid any yearly fees ever because I don't need updates for the charts I have, but I’ll never pay that.

The newer subscription models aren't even about updates. They are about you "renting" the software even if it doesn't change. Companies don't do it because it's good for you, they do it because it's good for them. It's to the point now where they won't even let you "buy" a new release - they move you to the subscription model and deprecate support for all older versions.



Software as a service has advantages but it also comes with many truckloads of disadvantages.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

The newer subscription models aren't even about updates. They are about you "renting" the software even if it doesn't change. Companies don't do it because it's good for you, they do it because it's good for them. It's to the point now where they won't even let you "buy" a new release - they move you to the subscription model and deprecate support for all older versions.



Software as a service has advantages but it also comes with many truckloads of disadvantages.

You mean in general, right? iSailor is for updates, you keep the charts when you don’t pay the yearly fee.

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

The newer subscription models aren't even about updates. They are about you "renting" the software even if it doesn't change. Companies don't do it because it's good for you, they do it because it's good for them. It's to the point now where they won't even let you "buy" a new release - they move you to the subscription model and deprecate support for all older versions.



Software as a service has advantages but it also comes with many truckloads of disadvantages.

The companies are betting that you will forget about their bills
because they have your cc info and you are on auto-bill.
I’m willing to bet that most folks are paying subscriptions for
stuff they never use.
Where do you think the “Free first 3 months” deals come from
My method for dealing with this is to use one card for all
things that auto-bill. Easier to check
Cheers
Neil

[bensolomon]

I have I sailor, too. I noticed the price went up. My chart updates, though are not automatic. I have to pick the ones I want to update.

I know we certainly all want updated charts, but in the old days when I would buy a chart pack, those paper charts weren't regularly updated. It would be up to me to get the Mariner updates from the company.

[Mike OReilly]

I recently went through the process of choosing new charting software for my iPad (as a backup). I looked at iSailor, but decided it wasn't right for my needs. Now I'm doubly-glad.

Interestingly, I discovered that everyone has moved to this subscription model, but only Aqua-Maps insists you maintain an active subscription to keep your charts. All the others require an active subscription to get chart updates, and to access some of the other services like weather and tides.

I absolutely hate the subscription model. But companies love it. No surprise...

[requiem]

That's quite the increase! I'll be curious if Navionics does similar; anyone know their old prices for, say, Skagerrak & Kattegat or the UK/Ireland/Holland bundle?

I have mixed thoughts on subscription models, but I do think they're appropriate whenever the software provider has ongoing infrastructure costs (e.g. apps that connect to a central server to pull weather data, etc). There's also the question of how bugfixes and security updates are best handled...

[Stu Jackson]

I have been curious for quite some time as to why so many of you "...really liked having a second opinion..." in charts.


I recall my earliest navigation courses, where we were reminded that sometimes having two sources of input could, I say could, lead to confusion rather than clarity.


I also recall when electronic charting first became available and lots of the conversations back then were "which one (emphasis on ONE) was "best." For those of you, like me, who detest the use of "best" when it comes to our "compromise is part of design" boats, I did understand that some chart coverage in some areas was handled better by some than others (the Bahamas comes to mind). But in those cases, like say my experience here in Canada where govt charts are quite good, I never could understand the appeal of "other charts." In addition, aren't many of the "other charts" based on the same data? Other than "crowd sourced input charts" what are the differences? And I've also read, right here, that there may, I say may, be deficiencies in those "crowd sourced input charts" with potentially un-trustworthy data.


I am simply asking some questions to learn more. Thanks.

[PippaB]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I have been curious for quite some time as to why so many of you "...really liked having a second opinion..." in charts...

I can give you one example, we ran iSailor and another charting tool. Sometime around 10 years ago the French made a concerted effort to update their charts of French Polynesia. Transas (at the time) picked up those changes nearly immediately and pushed the update. So, that was our preferred source in FP. You could run a comparison when passing a fixed reference point and the Transas charts would be right on, while the others were not.

But, have also had the same thing in reverse for other locations.

We end up making a quick evaluation every time we get to someplace new, which of several chart sources seems most consistent with the real world? Unfortunately there are differences and discrepancies and some of them make a difference. Which all, then, leads back to the Mk I eyeball and comparing that with the other data you have.

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I have been curious for quite some time as to why so many of you "...really liked having a second opinion..." in charts.


I recall my earliest navigation courses, where we were reminded that sometimes having two sources of input could, I say could, lead to confusion rather than clarity.


I also recall when electronic charting first became available and lots of the conversations back then were "which one (emphasis on ONE) was "best." For those of you, like me, who detest the use of "best" when it comes to our "compromise is part of design" boats, I did understand that some chart coverage in some areas was handled better by some than others (the Bahamas comes to mind). But in those cases, like say my experience here in Canada where govt charts are quite good, I never could understand the appeal of "other charts." In addition, aren't many of the "other charts" based on the same data? Other than "crowd sourced input charts" what are the differences? And I've also read, right here, that there may, I say may, be deficiencies in those "crowd sourced input charts" with potentially un-trustworthy data.


I am simply asking some questions to learn more. Thanks.

Stu,

If I have two independent sources of chart data that both agree, it gives me an added level of confidence. If they diverge, it tells me I have to pay extra close attention. That’s not a source of “confusion” that’s data.

It doesn’t always work. I found that transas charts in Canada used exactly the same official government chart data as Navionics, right down to showing me the rocks that were not there. In the Bahamas Transas charts were a very helpful second source, usually agreeing with Navionics, but not always. They were clearly developed from different survey data.

I can not understand how less data can be a good thing, although I understand that people want a single answer they can put blind trust into. I see the same thing with weather models. People latch onto one model and ignore all the others because they don’t know what to do if they see a difference and get all tied into mental knots trying to figure out which one is “right.”

And I come to the table with a deep skepticism of crowdsourced data, in pretty much everything, but especially in potentially life critical applications like navigation

[ilCigno]

iSailor seems to be dead. The chart server is down for some time now and there hasn't been a software update for ages. Payed options cannot be renewed. Service requests are not answered (or in some rare cased a routine answer). Website is down too. Not a word from the owners to inform their customers.

Too bad, it was one of the best navigation apps available. My advise is stay away from iSailor until there is more positive news from Wärsilä.