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Old 05-04-2021, 07:49   #31
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

I would argue that a good mariner uses all the resources available to him/her. Having all the electronics and gadgets at hand doesn't preclude someone from looking at the world around them to see what's going on. But someone without the electronics can't use them to help verify what they're seeing.


On topic, my biggest suggestion (as others mentioned) is to pick whatever brand you like and get a complete system from them. It's all personal choice, I like garmin and b&g/simrad. We ended up going with a complete b&g system, mostly because they're geared specifically towards sailing. I've not had any problems with b&g customer service, but I've only needed to call them once. I ordered our whole system through defender and did the install ourselves. It was about $11k; that includes a 12" zues 3, 3 triton 2 displays, nac-3 autopilot, new type 2 ram, 4g radar, vhf with ais transceiver, wireless vhf remote, dst-800 transducer, wired wind transducer, and all the necessary network cables.

Install isn't too hard. Once you understand the concept behind how the nmea-2000 network goes together, then it's just a matter of figuring out the appropriate places for drops and the backbone in your particular boat.
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:56   #32
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

I am not a fan of any of the integrated systems. I have had a single component failure take out the entire B&G, Raymarine, and Garmin system on boats I have delivered. I always bring a smartphone with Navionics to use when things go south.

Out of curiosity, do any of the big systems have an alarm to warn you if you are going to violate a set minimum depth in a set amount of time on your current course and speed? I remember that was in the clunky old CMAP software from Russia, and it saved my ass several times. It was based on charted depths, but you could also do an AI look at the depthsounder over time.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:12   #33
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
I am not a fan of any of the integrated systems. I have had a single component failure take out the entire B&G, Raymarine, and Garmin system on boats I have delivered. I always bring a smartphone with Navionics to use when things go south.

Out of curiosity, do any of the big systems have an alarm to warn you if you are going to violate a set minimum depth in a set amount of time on your current course and speed? I remember that was in the clunky old CMAP software from Russia, and it saved my ass several times. It was based on charted depths, but you could also do an AI look at the depthsounder over time.
I total agree.

I very much enjoy the integrated data. The stability of the N2K network is much improved over the NMEA0183. It will be interesting to see if stability gets even better with the new OneNet standard.

As much as I enjoy the integrated data, I still keep my charts and Navionics tablet at hand. Foolish to not have a back-up to the back-up as many have noted.

The system I have installed alarms minimum depths in passage planning as well as underway.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:39   #34
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

I'm watching this thread with interest. A couple years back, I started replacing my old system - to a much lesser extent than yours. I was familiar with Raymarine, but started looking at other systems... Garmin, on the surface, looked like exactly what I wanted but after more research it didn't really sell it for me. I eventually chose the B&G over Raymarine mainly for their all-in-one display, but I would go with either of those two above the Garmin.


My boat is not expensive and 'simple' (I have no pressure water, hot water or refrigeration). I navigate with handheld GPS and paper. I replaced the original devices and installed wind, speed and depth - these are mainly bonus tools... (yeah, my depth sounder died on a big trip and that was the cause of some anxiety, but the rest is gravy) I do have a JRC radar which I've only used once in anger (needed?). I think it's 16 mile, and, well, for my purposes it's fairly useless. I have 2 VHF's which are separate systems (no AIS).



The reason I mentioned the above is that I will be surprised if you can get ALL that you've requested, in a connected system, for under your proposed budget. Therefore, compromises need to be made either on the number of devices, quality of the system, or the budget itself. Would you prefer fewer, higher quality bits? or more, cheaper quality bits? I think that will help you determine the system you install. My philosophy is that the more bits you have, the more bits you have that will break. If it were me, I'd cut out the radar to get closer to your budget, then use an all-in-one system (fewer new holes for gauges in an old boat). Avoid wireless. Using similar logic and process, I landed me on the B&G side a few years back but did not put a plotter or integrated AIS as I didn't want to compromise on budget... both of which I would definitely like to have on my next boat though.



Watching your progress with interest
J.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:56   #35
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

Just replaced all of my systems with Raymarine including a new VHF with remote. Cost was 13k. Went with wireless radar at the suggestion of my installer. I am hoping it was the right decision.







Life is a leap of faith so spread your arms and hold your breath and always trust your cape.
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:07   #36
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

Just did all this (sonar, radar, large screen GPS unit, autopilot) for 46í sailing cat.

Brand: Garmin for us. We talked w several knowledgeable guys in the electronics world, one currently installs electronics in US submarines, another races and owns a local and trusted install company. We needed to be talked out of B&G (such a cool and trusted sailing brand in the past, but pricey and not convinced their current tech is better for a cruising boat) and Raymarine (apparently some companies are buying each other up and some are not investing in new technology at the same rate as others). They both recommended Garmin for 2020/2021 electronics and we are happy w the ease of instal and quality of products. Garmin also have good sonar device and newer radar options. This was according to the guys able to sell us any brand - they had no dog in the fight. Our ultimate theory was one brand =slightly easier and cheaper to interface the devices. One brand allows bundled purchases with discount. Again, just my opinion ... but we are happy and it all works well and somehow felt that Garmin was a car nav device prior to our research and use of the system. We were mistaken and glad with our ultimate decision.

Caveat: Get a large screen for split screen function and older eyes. If you can read it, you canít use it. Out 12Ē screen is easy to see and splits to a legible size. Overlay radar on chart but still need screen for sonar. Really enjoying the sonar for gunkholing and chart confirmation.

Price: maybe you can install yourself but I would recommend budgeting $15,000 to $20,000 unless you are up to date with your tech skills. Thinking you would not be up to date and tech savvy if you are asking us these questions ...IMHO spring the lock off the credit card and hire a trusted pro. Done right =safety and efficiency.

Lastly: book now. If you live in North America, you are already late to book a good electronics guy for May or even June. The upsideó you could use a portable nav system like an iPad with nav for the season and get to know your boat before deciding on what you need and where to place it. Those installs tend to be permanent once the fiberglass is cut and the wires are run. You may change your mind regarding placement of or purchase of a certain system with some use of the boat.

Good luck and fair winds.
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Old 05-04-2021, 12:23   #37
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

B&G is more suited for sailors, I have B&G and their algorithms for sailing are very good. Other than that Raymarine, Garmin etc. are mostly o'kay. Raymarine has its' own NMEA2k set up which is a bit of a problem. B&G has a normal N2K network which is super. You can use Maretron transducers (the Compass and STW & Depth sensors are very good) and lot's of other sensors and gateways work with the system. I just bought a Actisense W2K-1 NMEA 2000 till WiFi-gateway to communicate with the iPad in the cockpit. Extremely easy to install and marvelous functionality.
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Old 05-04-2021, 13:59   #38
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

I like the Vesper Cortex
GPS, DSC, VHF, AIS TRANSPONDER, WiFi, NMEA2000, NMEA 0183, wireless or wired handset, antenna multiplexer.....all-in-one box.

The WiFi will interface to a gateway, RADAR or other equipment, making it possible to integrate everything on your boat without multiple duplications.

Share the data with OpenCPN and then mirror the displays on a laptop and your phone.
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Old 07-04-2021, 04:33   #39
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

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Originally Posted by Visarend View Post
IMHO you should think about redundancy, regarding electronic systems strictly involved in safety. (As an example, I could quote the redundancy I accumulated in the years re positioning and navigation systems: paper charts + Tamaya sextant and tables; old BW plotter w Cmaps; Opencpn + Cm93 charts on my linux pc; a rugged waterproof smartphone w Navionics and Opencpn+Cm93. Also, TackTick depth finder+ lead line ready for use, etc.). Obviously, less redundancy is needed if only daysailing/coastal sailing.
Here Here - are you buying this stuff because you like gadgets or because you Ďneed ití. On our yacht we had nothing. We made a list of desirables and a list of essentials. We fitted a vhf radio, a log and depth sounder to sail the 700 nm home for a refit. Iíve since added in increments Wind Instruments, auto pilot and a chart plotter. I have not missed any of the desirables and rarely use the chart plotter - navionics on a £150 tablet wotrks better and is much easier and cheaoer to keep up to date. I have no idea what Iíd use sonar for and if I had a radar Iíd have only used it once (crossing shipping Lane in fog but the AIS was great). My advice is define what you need now and pick the most important parts from that list. Then add to it what you really need as and when you can easily afford it!
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Old 07-04-2021, 13:11   #40
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

I suggest sticking to a single manufacturer
Thatís coming from someone who hasnít and just last year bought both Nasa Clipper and Raymarine products. And has a lowrance chart plotter.
Personally I am not a huge fan of Raymarine despite spending 2K + on them last year. And probably a 1/4 of that on Nasa, I havenít been impressed with performance although connectivity is great with Raymarine. ( that might just be the problems I have with the Tiller pilot ) it has certainly stopped me investing my $ in their parent company Flir
I am really in need of a decent Thermal Imaging Camera but I have been so disappointed with Raymarine that I canít part with my $ on a Flir Camera that I really need
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Old 07-04-2021, 14:58   #41
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Re: I need everything electronic what do I Buy

The most important thing to remember is that the radar and autohelm must be the same brand as the MFD to work properly. You have FOUR choices:

Raymarine. I HATE them because they have proprietary NMEA2000 plugs called SeaTalkNG. They are currently the only company that does so I strongly recommend against them because it will make installs more complex and expensive.

Garmin. I really like their stuff. They are the only company that has smartwatches and adventure cams that work with their sailing gear. Garmin makes a ton of electronics for other sports so I would go with them if you are into other sports besides sailing.

Furuno. This the only one I haven't personally used. They are expensive and seem geared towards outfitting large commercial vessels so I would avoid for recreational.

Navico makes Lowrance (fishing), Simrad (powerboating) and B&G (sailing). If you're a sailor B&G should be your first choice because that's what most boats use. If you have someone crew on your boat, likely they are very experienced with B&G because they dominate racing. It's what I have on my boat and I love it.

I like my Vesper AIS and Maretron wind instrument with no moving parts to break. https://www.maretron.com/products/wso100.php
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