GPS/Satnav usage switches off the brain..

[waterman46]

I think my brain is rather like an analog version of a very cheap GPS receiver. I get lost in places where I can't see the sky, like trying to find the exit of an underground parking garage. But if I can get just a glimpse of the sky I get oriented quite easily without even thinking about it. Now thanks to all this research, I guess I can blame my hippocampus.

It seems there is a big range of capabilities in this regard. Now here's perhaps a controversial observation on my part, and it would interesting to see if research would confirm it: I noticed that many more women than men, don't find their way by creating a map of their movements in their minds but rather they are better than men at noticing visual details that they need to find their way around, such as small signs.

Back to sailing, I did lots of coastal navigation before GPS, identifying landmarks, taking and plotting bearings, etc. Now I'm lazy and just use the chart plotter. I'm sure my hippocampus has nearly petrified by now. One thing I'm really thankful for however, is AIS to keep out of the way of the big guys - it removes a ton of stress.

[boatman61]

Pelagic.. quite often (50/50) the boats I deliver don't have all the toy's.. or they don't work, so I always carry my Notebook with Nimble Navigator which my crew is familiar with.. also they only do one 4hr watch in 24hrs.. the rest of the time I'm on deck.. or the galley long enough to cook a meal.
Keeps me slim..

[buzzstar]

New check list item: If electronic nav devices used, be sure to activate sextant to switch brain back on.

[KiwiKen]

As a former professional navigator, who learned the art well before the days of GPS and even SatNav, it is essential that anyone doing serious ocean sailing can navigate safely using traditional skills and methods.

Yes, GPS takes the hassle out of Navigation, but what if the GPS fails or otherwise misreads, sure just carry a second GPS, Now which one is giving the false position - Note Civil Aircraft have triplex systems.

In 1983, the yacht Lion Heart was lost while trying to enter Whangaroa Harbour in New Zealand with the loss of 7 lives. The skipper who survived made the fatal error of closing a lee shore in a full gale, and having a Sat Nav, he "knew where he was" and made the decision because of the state of the crew, who were suffering from severe sea sickness. The tragedy occurred because he did not "exactly know where he was" in relation to Whangaroa Harbour entrance, and when he tried to beat his way out against the gale it was estimated that the yacht was experiencing somewhere in the vicinity of 50 degrees of leeway, and it ended with the yacht going ashore in a storm. I had the opportunity, as I was a part time examiner for candidates presenting for commercial tickets, to read the full accident investigation on this avoidable tragedy.

Competence at traditional navigational skills is still essential for serious yacht navigators, and knowing exactly where you are approximately, is not grounds for not following safe seamanship priciples.

[leftbrainstuff]

There are a number of defence studies that highlight the total loss of situational awareness from fully integrated systems.

My mum taught me and enforced math on the fly. We had to count change, convert units and the like.

I still do this today and find it helps me keep my situational awareness high.

I travel a lot for work. Googlemaps is very convenient but I often find I lose my sense of direction.

Like math you need to practice navigating to keep your akills up. Navigate by the ants and stars as an old friend used to say.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by KiwiKen

As a former professional navigator, who learned the art well before the days of GPS and even SatNav, it is essential that anyone doing serious ocean sailing can navigate safely using traditional skills and methods.

Yes, GPS takes the hassle out of Navigation, but what if the GPS fails or otherwise misreads, sure just carry a second GPS, Now which one is giving the false position - Note Civil Aircraft have triplex systems.

In 1983, the yacht Lion Heart was lost while trying to enter Whangaroa Harbour in New Zealand with the loss of 7 lives. The skipper who survived made the fatal error of closing a lee shore in a full gale, and having a Sat Nav, he "knew where he was" and made the decision because of the state of the crew, who were suffering from severe sea sickness. The tragedy occurred because he did not "exactly know where he was" in relation to Whangaroa Harbour entrance, and when he tried to beat his way out against the gale it was estimated that the yacht was experiencing somewhere in the vicinity of 50 degrees of leeway, and it ended with the yacht going ashore in a storm. I had the opportunity, as I was a part time examiner for candidates presenting for commercial tickets, to read the full accident investigation on this avoidable tragedy.

Competence at traditional navigational skills is still essential for serious yacht navigators, and knowing exactly where you are approximately, is not grounds for not following safe seamanship priciples.

The claim is the brain is shut down, not altered. I have not entered the harbor, but have doubts I would try, brain on or off, in severe conditions, perhaps even just because it is dark. I have voluntarily refused (not being asked or ordered) at times to enter less famous places, such as Morro Bay, California, and to cross the Columbia bar at Astoria when I did not think I could handle it. Despite the "scientific" claims to the contrary, the human brain does not just shut down no matter the conditions and the electronics. We are, and remain, responsible for our actions or inactions. If one does not feel that way, so not remain a sailor or, in particular, a "captain," even [particularly] a solo.

[KiwiKen]

As I stated, I had the opportunity to read the full accident investigation report. The skipper believed he had a major crew problem due to severe sea sickness, it was a full gale, and as he had a SatNav position, he believed he could safely attempt in enter the harbour. Whangaroa harbour is a well sheltered deep water harbour on the East coat of Nothland with the navigable entrance less than a nm wide. The prudent action would have been to stand off at least 30nm off the coast in deep water where the wave action would not have been so violent, and waited out the storm until the weather eased. Visibility was extremely poor, and by the time the skipper could see the shore line it was too late to recover the situation.
It is of note that Sat Nav does not constantly update like GPS and relies on the next transit of suitable satellites to update.

Unfortunately his Sat Nav position was not quite accurate enough, he approached a lee shore down wind in a gale, and was unable to extricate himself from extreme danger, and the yacht was lost along with 7 lives.

[knockabout]

sounds like poms are biologically adapting to electronics / their brain focuses on other things while driving / bird watching / reading advertising boards / timing for the pub opening on the car ferry

[zeilersailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Depending on location/voyage I switch mine off for anything up to 12hrs at a time.. then its on for long enough to check position and COG before going off again.
However when threading through say the Torres Strait with its tidal runs of up to 5kts plus across ones track, the Channel Isles up to 7kts plus(UK) where minute by minute adjustments can be needed to avoid hazards and maintain a safe course I will make the exception.
Gotten lazy.. used to do it with paper and sights back in the 80's

It's not lazyness it's caled progress

[jrbogie]

as technology increases in aviation flying has become exponentially more safe. pilots today do their jobs much better than in the days that i flew. they are simply more capable. does that carry over to sailing??? can't say it does but wouldn't say it doesn't.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jrbogie

as technology increases in aviation flying has become exponentially more safe. pilots today do their jobs much better than in the days that i flew. they are simply more capable. does that carry over to sailing??? can't say it does but wouldn't say it doesn't.

And this research paper says nothing on the subject of which is better; manual or automated street navigation. All it does is note that the part of the brain that is used in manual navigation is not active when people follow the directions of an automated (GPS/Satnav) system.

Makes perfect sense really; your muscles are not activate if you use a forklift to hoist a keg of beer vs if you did it manually. Same thing here in the brain. And like a muscle, it is well known that brain function can also diminish and atrophy if not “exercised.”

From this research I would postulate that those who depend on automated navigation tools will have diminished natural capacity over time compared to those who keep using their right posterior hippocampal by navigating manually. Whether that matters in the real world of ubiquitous technology is a different question.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by jrbogie

as technology increases in aviation flying has become exponentially more safe. pilots today do their jobs much better than in the days that i flew. they are simply more capable. does that carry over to sailing??? can't say it does but wouldn't say it doesn't.

I don't think you can compare flying to boating ...yet many do.

It is like comparing Formula One to riding a bike!
While flying is so much more technically and mechanically advanced, compared to sailing, Navigation plays a far less important part other than lining up on designated approaches under the Radar guidance of a Controller

In flying, you can be blind..... there are no unmarked or hidden shoals / reefs / flotsam out there to get you and mostly you just need to avoid hitting each other or bad weather.

Sailing is all about keeping a proper lookout /Flying is about monitoring your instruments

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by knockabout

sounds like poms are biologically adapting to electronics / their brain focuses on other things while driving / bird watching / reading advertising boards / timing for the pub opening on the car ferry

They do in Washington State Ferries.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/FAQ_Answ...ne_aboard.html

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I don't think you can compare flying to boating ...yet many do.

It is like comparing Formula One to riding a bike!
While flying is so much more technically and mechanically advanced, compared to sailing, Navigation plays a far less important part other than lining up on designated approaches under the Radar guidance of a Controller

In flying, you can be blind..... there are no unmarked or hidden shoals / reefs / flotsam out there to get you and mostly you just need to avoid hitting each other or bad weather.

Sailing is all about keeping a proper lookout /Flying is about monitoring your instruments

You complained about others making the the comparison between flying and boating, then went ahead and did the same. I am unsure what you may know or think you know about boating, but I am certain that you do not know much at all about flying, except as a person in the passenger compartment of a commercial jet. To start, and finish, you are plainly unfamiliar with VFRs in contrast to IFRs?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I don't think you can compare flying to boating ...yet many do.

It is like comparing Formula One to riding a bike!
While flying is so much more technically and mechanically advanced, compared to sailing, Navigation plays a far less important part other than lining up on designated approaches under the Radar guidance of a Controller

In flying, you can be blind..... there are no unmarked or hidden shoals / reefs / flotsam out there to get you and mostly you just need to avoid hitting each other or bad weather.

Sailing is all about keeping a proper lookout /Flying is about monitoring your instruments

I reckon there is much in common re navigation in boating / flying then what isn't.

Flying nav techniques have historically followed nautical nav development.
First the Mark I eyeball, then compass, clock and chart, later RDF (ADF), gyro compass, inertial nav, VLF & Omega, Loran and now GPS.

Yes there are a few differences, aviation has had few more radio ground aids like VOR, ILS and DME but never used satnav or radar except in limited circumstances.

Remember the pilot is responsible for navigating the aircraft and outside of controlled airspace is also responsible for traffic separation. Inside controlled airspace where the heavy metal flies, Air Traffic Control (ATC) is principally responsible for maintaining separation between aircraft. ATC provide almost no navigational input except to advise if they notice something going off the tracks. Of course modern equipment make the workload easier for the flight crew just as it has done for the bridge of a VLCC. At a recreational level, things are even much more closely related between the two (IMO).

As for lack of shoals and reefs etc, it gets worse for the pilot. The whole earth's surface is one big shoal and his vessel (the aircraft) if left along for too long (minutes) will always head straight towards it...

If flying on instruments (i.e. in cloud), the situation only more dramatic. Controlled flight into terrain is analogous to running aground and remains a principle cause of aircraft accidents.

About the only thing that is easier in aviation is weather avoidance (again IMO).