Gill nets in the Chesapeake--How far underwater is the top edge?

[thinwater]

I would think this would be in a regulation somewhere, but I can't find it. Yes, the ends are marked, but often it is not clear to me which buoys go to which nets or where the net lies. I've yet to snag one, but I've always wondered and never been sure.

[shimari]

Here's the VA marking code: https://mrc.virginia.gov/regulations/fr430.shtm

1. One end of each gill net shall be marked by a flag of square dimensions, which shall measure at least 144 square inches.

2. The end of each gill net opposite the square flag marker shall be marked by either a triangular flag of at least 144 square inches or a floating ball of at least 50 inches circumference.

3. Each flag described in subdivisions 1 and 2 of this section shall be supported on a staff sufficient to maintain the bottom of the flag at least three feet above the surface of the water.

4. The end-marker flags on the same net or flag and floating ball on the same net shall be of identical color.

5. All flag staffs shall be marked with two stripes of two-inch wide reflective material that shall be visible from all sides; all end-marker floating balls shall be marked on three sides with patches of approximately two-inch by two-inch reflective material that shall be visible from all sides above the water line.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by shimari

Here's the VA marking code: https://mrc.virginia.gov/regulations/fr430.shtm

1. One end of each gill net shall be marked by a flag of square dimensions, which shall measure at least 144 square inches.

2. The end of each gill net opposite the square flag marker shall be marked by either a triangular flag of at least 144 square inches or a floating ball of at least 50 inches circumference.

3. Each flag described in subdivisions 1 and 2 of this section shall be supported on a staff sufficient to maintain the bottom of the flag at least three feet above the surface of the water.

4. The end-marker flags on the same net or flag and floating ball on the same net shall be of identical color.

5. All flag staffs shall be marked with two stripes of two-inch wide reflective material that shall be visible from all sides; all end-marker floating balls shall be marked on three sides with patches of approximately two-inch by two-inch reflective material that shall be visible from all sides above the water line.

Thank you. I found that too. Maryland has very similar rules. Neither addresses my question.



How far is the top of the net below the surface? Boats cross over them all the time. I reached down a few times with a boat hook and it seemed like more than 5 feet, and I have never snagged one. But with nets often overlapping and flags hard to tell apart, I'm sure I've cross many nets. I can't tell, from a distance, which end markers go with which net.

[Chotu]

I’ve crossed over tons and tons of these nets in my lifetime. All over the place.

On calm days I have been able to kind of see what’s going on below the surface.


so obviously, the floats are all linear. They go in a straight line pretty much. The net is beneath all of those floats.

going down from each float is a line. they go so deep that you can’t even see what they are attached to. You can’t see the net. Even in pretty Clear water.

even though I don’t have an exact depth, pretty sure it’s deeper than any of our boats

as long as you try to stay equidistant between floats, you’re going to be fine. I don’t go around these. I cross right over them every time, in every boat type.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I would think this would be in a regulation somewhere, but I can't find it. Yes, the ends are marked, but often it is not clear to me which buoys go to which nets or where the net lies. I've yet to snag one, but I've always wondered and never been sure.

I've not sailed in the Chesapeake, but I've done big mobs of sailing in Indonesian and Malaysia waters where gill nets are relatively common in coastal waters.

My guide rules are:

1. most (but not all) gill nets are bottom set, meaning that the fisher aims to have the bottom of the net sitting on the surface of the seabed;

2. gill nets are a commercial commodity. In Malaysia, for example, a visit to a fishing community/kampung quickly shows you that nylon nets constructed by a local net manufacturer are used by almost every fisher;

3. In Malaysia (and around south Kalimantan in Indonesia), the commercially made netting is 2.4 metres (about 8 feet) wide and comes in runs of as long as 90 metres or even 180 metres. Individual fishers cut the retail run into shorter lengths to suit themselves (meaning whether they haul the net by hand or by a PTO mechanical/electrical winch).

4. So knowing the depth of the water at the state of the tide, my practice was to subtract 2.4 metres, and then aim for the middle - meaning between the flagpoles at each end of the net - to get any additional benefit of sag in the net.

TL;DR: ask around to find out (1) the dimensions of the netting sold in your sailing area and (2) whether your local fishers bottom-set their gill nets. If bottom-setting is the practice, just subtract the width of the retail net from the water depth. Then compare your arithmetical result to your draft.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I’ve crossed over tons and tons of these nets in my lifetime. All over the place.

On calm days I have been able to kind of see what’s going on below the surface.


so obviously, the floats are all linear. They go in a straight line pretty much. The net is beneath all of those floats.

going down from each float is a line. they go so deep that you can’t even see what they are attached to. You can’t see the net. Even in pretty Clear water.

even though I don’t have an exact depth, pretty sure it’s deeper than any of our boats

as long as you try to stay equidistant between floats, you’re going to be fine. I don’t go around these. I cross right over them every time, in every boat type.

The Chesapeake drift nets do not have floats on the top edge. They hug the bottom. Just a flag at each end, but they can be many hundreds of yards apart and nets can overlap, making the location of any net a mystery to me.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

I've not sailed in the Chesapeake, but I've done big mobs of sailing in Indonesian and Malaysia waters where gill nets are relatively common in coastal waters.

My guide rules are:

1. most (but not all) gill nets are bottom set, meaning that the fisher aims to have the bottom of the net sitting on the surface of the seabed;

2. gill nets are a commercial commodity. In Malaysia, for example, a visit to a fishing community/kampung quickly shows you that nylon nets constructed by a local net manufacturer are used by almost every fisher;

3. In Malaysia (and around south Kalimantan in Indonesia), the commercially made netting is 2.4 metres (about 8 feet) wide and comes in runs of as long as 90 metres or even 180 metres. Individual fishers cut the retail run into shorter lengths to suit themselves (meaning whether they haul the net by hand or by a PTO mechanical/electrical winch).

4. So knowing the depth of the water at the state of the tide, my practice was to subtract 2.4 metres, and then aim for the middle - meaning between the flagpoles at each end of the net - to get any additional benefit of sag in the net.

TL;DR: ask around to find out (1) the dimensions of the netting sold in your sailing area and (2) whether your local fishers bottom-set their gill nets. If bottom-setting is the practice, just subtract the width of the retail net from the water depth. Then compare your arithmetical result to your draft.

Good points. The regs say the nets can be 30' tall, but I've seen them and 8' seems about right. They can be set in water 15-30' deep, but 15-25' is most common. You very, very seldom hear of entanglement, so that sounds right. Crab pots get snagged all the time. Just a regular day.


That is what I thought and that is what I have seen the fishermen do. I was just looking for confirmation.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The Chesapeake drift nets do not have floats on the top edge. They hug the bottom. Just a flag at each end, but they can be many hundreds of yards apart and nets can overlap, making the location of any net a mystery to me.

hmmmm I don’t remember anything special every time I go through the Chesapeake.

The flags are not on floats tied to the nets below like i described? They are driven into the ground? On a stake?

usually when I see a net, there are floats. They may be at each end, and there may be multiple nets and many floats, but they are usually in line because that’s how you catch fish. they aren’t willy-nilly, there’s a strategy going on, and they are lined up with each other. can’t say I’ve ever just seen a couple of flags driven into the ground. they’re always on floats for me. like this

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

hmmmm I don’t remember anything special every time I go through the Chesapeake.

The flags are not on floats tied to the nets below like i described? They are driven into the ground? On a stake?

usually when I see a net, there are floats. They may be at each end, and there may be multiple nets and many floats, but they are usually in line because that’s how you catch fish. they aren’t willy-nilly, there’s a strategy going on, and they are lined up with each other. can’t say I’ve ever just seen a couple of flags driven into the ground. they’re always on floats for me. like this

The intermediate floats are not required here and would only increase the chance of snagging, I guess, so there are no surface intermediate floats. The only intermediate floats are underwater. floats are underwater, so just the end flags. I said this in post 6. Additionally, there can be multiple nets in a row; if they are linked the flags are not required at the links, so the flags can be quite far apart, nearly out of sight. Finally, if there are 4 floats, say in a rough square, which ones connects to which ones? In some of the side bays, the direction of the tide is not always obvious, because there is both current and tide, and because fish tend to follow the depth contures as much as they follow the tide. So not obvious. I've seen nets parallel to the tide. Just to add to the confusion, the flags will be the same color, if they are the same owner.


I think Alan nailed it. They rig them deep enough that they are unlikely to snag, mostly 10 feet or more below the surface.

[ggray]

Yeah, I've snagged one, maybe 15 years ago.

Lower Chesapeake off of or just south of the York River.

Caught in the sail drive of our catamaran. Spring time, cold water.

But you are right, sometimes there are so many flags it's hard to say which are connected.

[Peterbreit]

Question: How do I know if these flags indicate a crab line or nets?
In the northern part of the Bay we see the fish traps , many stakes, unlit but show up on radar!

[rognvald]

When we transited the Great Lakes en route to the Gulf of St. Lawrence in 2018, we encountered gill nets under floating buoys in Western Lake Erie. There was no route around them, however, I was able to contact the fisherman by radio. He told me to sail through them and that the nets were well below the surface.
Rognvald

[Donnybrook]

The ones I've seen on the Great Lakes are at the bottom and I've safely passed over them many times. If motoring, I may put the transmission in neutral and coast over the top just in case if I'm close to one of the end flags.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Peterbreit

Question: How do I know if these flags indicate a crab line or nets?
In the northern part of the Bay we see the fish traps , many stakes, unlit but show up on radar!

I guess you are a little new to the Bay.

Crab pots have a separate float for each pot. No string of pots (like lobsters) and no flags.

Pound nets have stakes, reflectors and lights (which often don't work), but not generally flags. But you can see the rows of stakes sticking 4-6 feet above the water. They don't move.

Gill nets have a flag at each end, about 30 inches tall. The flags are ~ 100 yards or more apart and the nets are frequently moved. They cannot be permanently set in one location by law. They run tight to the bottom and a are normally are deep enough at the top edge that you can't snag them, but that is what we are discussing. Because of the distance between flags and the way they are set in strings and overlapping strings, it is often very hard to tell whether you are crossing the net or going around the end. Or at least I get confused.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Donnybrook

The ones I've seen on the Great Lakes are at the bottom and I've safely passed over them many times. If motoring, I may put the transmission in neutral and coast over the top just in case if I'm close to one of the end flags.

Hi, Donny,
We didn't know this at the time and had visions of entangling our prop and going into the polluted and cold water(at the time) of Lake Erie to remove the nets. Rognvald