FURUNO or B&G

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by simonhantler

Any experience with these two brands for offshore cruising? Tell me your opinion only if you’ve owned either. Weighing up the option for chartplotter, radar, Autopilot for new boat build.

We don't get all that far offshore, but... our electronics suite is all Furuno (except for VHFs).

Plotter/GPS (we're using NOAA raster and vector charts; others are available for worldwide coverage) and separate GPS "navigator," AP, radar, fishfinder and separate depthsounder, AIS.

All have worked well since our 2009 install, and the couple times I've had questions Furuno support has been very good.

-Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You can get much better radars with Doppler technology etc. from either brand but with AIS today the role of radar is reduced to smaller range during fog, tracing squalls and the occasional target without AIS.

Originally Posted by Moo

Lucky you! Sailing where there are only occasional targets without AIS.......

Around here, it's "the occasional target with AIS."

I'm sitting in a 192-slip marina with probably 170 boats here just now. Generally larger boats, from mostly 35' up to 100' or so. About 15 have AIS. In our home area, I'd guess maybe 99% of boats DON'T have AIS.

-Chris

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Around here, it's "the occasional target with AIS."

I'm sitting in a 192-slip marina with probably 170 boats here just now. Generally larger boats, from mostly 35' up to 100' or so. About 15 have AIS. In our home area, I'd guess maybe 99% of boats DON'T have AIS.

-Chris

Yes of course. My comments were for offshore cruising, where all ships are required by law to have AIS. During our recent passage from Panama to Florida via the Windward Passage, the first target without AIS was a little ferry in the Bahamas

[Moo]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yes of course. My comments were for offshore cruising, where all ships are required by law to have AIS. During our recent passage from Panama to Florida via the Windward Passage, the first target without AIS was a little ferry in the Bahamas

Not all ships are required to have AIS. Under 300 T it is not required. Some flags require it for all commercial vessels, whatever the tonnage, some don't. In many parts of the world it is unusual to see AIS on anything. RADAR is real :;

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Moo

Not all ships are required to have AIS. Under 300 T it is not required. Some flags require it for all commercial vessels, whatever the tonnage, some don't. In many parts of the world it is unusual to see AIS on anything. RADAR is real :;

Under 300t not required? Yes, maybe, so the first one out of hundreds we met on this passage was the little ferry in the Bahamas. This is called “occasional target without AIS” which is why I thought it fitting to use that term. Funny how y’all seem to be worked up by that... is it that you don’t have an AIS transponder, is it because it is me who wrote that or is it a general desire to argue about everything?

[Moo]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Under 300t not required? Yes, maybe, so the first one out of hundreds we met on this passage was the little ferry in the Bahamas. This is called “occasional target without AIS” which is why I thought it fitting to use that term. Funny how y’all seem to be worked up by that... is it that you don’t have an AIS transponder, is it because it is me who wrote that or is it a general desire to argue about everything?

Nah it is because you need to get out into the big wide world where meeting a ship with AIS is a novelty.... what I'm saying is that this is an international forum and your experience doesn't apply to most, so perhaps keep that in mind.... Sail forth and may you leave a long wake.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Around here, it's "the occasional target with AIS."

I'm sitting in a 192-slip marina with probably 170 boats here just now. Generally larger boats, from mostly 35' up to 100' or so. About 15 have AIS. In our home area, I'd guess maybe 99% of boats DON'T have AIS.

-Chris

Same here in Australia.
Thousands of boats
Handful of AIS targets.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Moo

Nah it is because you need to get out into the big wide world where meeting a ship with AIS is a novelty.... what I'm saying is that this is an international forum and your experience doesn't apply to most, so perhaps keep that in mind.... Sail forth and may you leave a long wake.

Okay, I’ll bite. Tell me where I need to go where ships don’t have AIS? Surely you have at least something to back up your words?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Same here in Australia.
Thousands of boats
Handful of AIS targets.

You mean these are fake? How does Australia stand above International maritime law?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yes of course. My comments were for offshore cruising, where all ships are required by law to have AIS. During our recent passage from Panama to Florida via the Windward Passage, the first target without AIS was a little ferry in the Bahamas

In your post #14 you said "targets" and I took that to mean to include all vessels.

I think I understand now where you're using "ship". Yes, we see "ships" and they transmit AIS. Just not a huge number of "ships" in the area, compared to the rest of the "vessels" we have to contend with.

A screen shot from marinetraffic or whereever can show lots of targets around us at any given time; in reality, that could be maybe 1% of the vessels we can see at the same time with a Mark 1** eyeball.

Anyway, my only intent was to provide counterpoint for the OP's benefit: AIS hasn't at all reduced the role for radar in our neck of the woods... and I assume there are other similar areas.

-Chris

[Oceansailor]

In Europe many most cruising boats that goes offshore have an Category B transceiver. But an AIS never replaces an lookout or a radar. There is enough with boats out there to make it very dangerous if you think AIS replaces a lookout. Fishing boats for example many times turn their AIS off when the are fishing in the “wrong place”

[kenbo]

I was once ridiculed on this forum for calling radar mission critical. I still believe it is.

I see the radar/ais issue as stacking the odds in your favor. Radar can "see" a very high percentage of targets, ais can see a very low percentage of targets. Define targets any way you wish.

[kenbo]

To the OP, don't make your navigation electronics choices based on bells and whistles. Choose reliability and customer service. The folks that make their living every day on the water make Furuno their choice in the far majority of cases.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kenbo

I was once ridiculed on this forum for calling radar mission critical. I still believe it is.

I see the radar/ais issue as stacking the odds in your favor. Radar can "see" a very high percentage of targets, ais can see a very low percentage of targets. Define targets any way you wish.

I am all with you on that Totally agree.



RADAR is the single most important electronic aid to navigation save only perhaps for the depth sounder. It's the only device on board which tells you what is actually out there, without what is out there sending a signal to you, as rocks and so forth generally do not. It's far more important than AIS or indeed chart plotters, although, of course, I am glad to use those too.


To the OP's question: As a long-time (almost 10 years) B&G user, my anwer would be -- Furuno. The B&G 4G radar has some very good points, but overall it is not such a great radar, and MARPA is useless. All of the Navico gear is dropped from support after a few years. All of it is to some extent or another, buggy, and occasionally unstable. I miss the rock-solid military hardware type qualities of my old Raymarine Pathfinder system, which the Navico really lacks -- the Navico gear is kind of toy-like, engineered to consumer electronics standards, in comparison. I will go with Furuno next time.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

In your post #14 you said "targets" and I took that to mean to include all vessels.

I think I understand now where you're using "ship". Yes, we see "ships" and they transmit AIS. Just not a huge number of "ships" in the area, compared to the rest of the "vessels" we have to contend with.

A screen shot from marinetraffic or whereever can show lots of targets around us at any given time; in reality, that could be maybe 1% of the vessels we can see at the same time with a Mark 1** eyeball.

Anyway, my only intent was to provide counterpoint for the OP's benefit: AIS hasn't at all reduced the role for radar in our neck of the woods... and I assume there are other similar areas.

-Chris

Coastal sailing is much safer with radar, fully agree with you!