Does Anyone Still Use Paper Charts ?

[roger.waite]

Originally Posted by Astrid

As a rule, I will use anything and everything I have to hand to keep off the rocks and shoals.

Lol. The best summary to date ...

[barnakiel]

I do.

b.

[donradcliffe]

This is from Noonsite, on the demise of paper Admiralty charts:

Some charts will no longer be available from the United Kingdom Hydrographic Office (UKHO).
In August the UK Hydrographic Office announced its plans to restructure the Admiralty Leisure product range. This will involve phasing out the following charts from 4th November 2010:-
Admiralty Leisure Editions (Excluding SC2036, SC2045, SC2656, SC2669, SC808 which will withdrawn from Summer 2011).
Non-UK & Ireland Admiralty Leisure Folios (These typically cover the Aegean and Caribbean seas).
Admiralty Leisure Tough Charts.
RYA Chart Plotter
The UKHO will focus its attention on the Admiralty Leisure Folios for UK & Ireland and Admiralty Easy Tide website, which, it believes, are most valued by its customers.
Stuart Carruthers, Cruising Manager, "We are naturally very disappointed by this announcement. By discontinuing the Small Craft Editions the UKHO are pulling the very charts that support the leisure sailor. These charts are lightweight and easy to use and provide detailed information for localised areas."
"Furthermore, the plans to withdraw a number of leisure charts has been announced before extended coastal coverage within the Admiralty Leisure Folios has been confirmed. This will particularly affect much of the Scottish coastline."
"The increase in use of digital charts, and a rise in print costs have made it a lot harder for companies to produce cost effective paper charts; if there are not sufficient sales then it becomes harder to sustain profit margins and production levels", Steen Ingerslev, RYA Publications Manager, explains.
"This is not an issue confined to the maritime sector. The production and sales of paper books is being squeezed by the rise in sales of digital books. The profit margins for book sellers are so small that it’s a fight for survival."

Sounds like a classic business death spiral--20 years from now the only paper charts will be in museums.

[hummingway]

This thread sure took off. I don't suppose there's much to be added but I will say that if you are in Canadian waters that you are not familiar with a paper chart is a legal requirement. So Mark, if you're reading this, leave the goat at home and bring paper.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by hummingway

This thread sure took off. I don't suppose there's much to be added but I will say that if you are in Canadian waters that you are not familiar with a paper chart is a legal requirement. So Mark, if you're reading this, leave the goat at home and bring paper.

Actually Section 5(3) of Charts and Nautical Publications Regulations, 1995 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/...egulations.pdf) permits the use of CHS electronic charts. The regulation also lists other publication, mostly paper, that should be carried.

Those with local knowledge on vessels under 100 tons are exempt under section 4(2).

[hummingway]

I stand corrected. I don't know how it missed it it's in such plain english:

(3) The chart may be in electronic form only if
(a) it is displayed on an ECDIS or, in the case of failure
of the ECDIS, on a back-up arrangement; and
(b) the ECDIS
(i) in waters for which an ENC is available, is operated
using the ENC,
(ii) in waters for which an ENC is not available, is
operated using an RNC,
(iii) when the ECDIS is operating in the RCDS
mode, is used in conjunction with paper charts that
meet the requirements of subsections (1) and (2),
and
(iv) is accompanied by a back-up arrangement.

Which I would summarize as: you can't have a disk and no device to read it.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by hummingway

I stand corrected. I don't know how it missed it it's in such plain english:

(3) The chart may be in electronic form only if
(a) it is displayed on an ECDIS or, in the case of failure
of the ECDIS, on a back-up arrangement; and
(b) the ECDIS
(i) in waters for which an ENC is available, is operated
using the ENC,
(ii) in waters for which an ENC is not available, is
operated using an RNC,
(iii) when the ECDIS is operating in the RCDS
mode, is used in conjunction with paper charts that
meet the requirements of subsections (1) and (2),
and
(iv) is accompanied by a back-up arrangement.

Which I would summarize as: you can't have a disk and no device to read it.

Actually I'm not sure that is all of the story:

(2) The type-approval of the ECDIS and the back-up
arrangement referred to in paragraph 10(1)(a) shall be in
accordance with testing standard IEC 61174 of the International
Electrotechnical Commission, entitled Maritime
navigation and radiocommunication equipment and systems
– Electronic chart display and information system
(ECDIS) – Operational and performance requirements,
methods of testing and required test results or another
testing standard that the Minister determines provides a
level of safety that is equivalent to or higher than that of
that standard.
(3) Proof of the type-approval shall be carried on
board the ship and be in the form of either of the following
that is issued by the competent authority:
(a) a label that is securely affixed to the ECDIS or the
back-up arrangement, as the case may be, in a readily
visible location; or
(b) a document that is kept in a readily accessible location
on the ship.

So, if I am reading that right, the electronic charts are only acceptable if the charting system is an officially approved system.

-dan

[MarkJ]

So I can take my goat and eat it too?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by hummingway

I stand corrected. I don't know how it missed it it's in such plain english:

(3) The chart may be in electronic form only if
(a) it is displayed on an ECDIS or, in the case of failure
of the ECDIS, on a back-up arrangement; and
(b) the ECDIS
(i) in waters for which an ENC is available, is operated
using the ENC,
(ii) in waters for which an ENC is not available, is
operated using an RNC,
(iii) when the ECDIS is operating in the RCDS
mode, is used in conjunction with paper charts that
meet the requirements of subsections (1) and (2),
and
(iv) is accompanied by a back-up arrangement.

Which I would summarize as: you can't have a disk and no device to read it.

Originally Posted by dacust

Actually I'm not sure that is all of the story:
(2) The type-approval of the ECDIS and the back-up
arrangement referred to in paragraph 10(1)(a) shall be in
accordance with testing standard IEC 61174 of the International
Electrotechnical Commission, entitled Maritime
navigation and radiocommunication equipment and systems
– Electronic chart display and information system
(ECDIS) – Operational and performance requirements,
methods of testing and required test results or another
testing standard that the Minister determines provides a
level of safety that is equivalent to or higher than that of
that standard.
(3) Proof of the type-approval shall be carried on
board the ship and be in the form of either of the following
that is issued by the competent authority:
(a) a label that is securely affixed to the ECDIS or the
back-up arrangement, as the case may be, in a readily
visible location; or
(b) a document that is kept in a readily accessible location
on the ship.


So, if I am reading that right, the electronic charts are only acceptable if the charting system is an officially approved system.

-dan

OK that is quite a lot of words (and TLA's / FLA's / OFA's) to replace "paper".
Possibly the best reason yet to go paper to remain legal (in this context).

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Wotname

OK that is quite a lot of words (and TLA's / FLA's / OFA's) to replace "paper".
Possibly the best reason yet to go paper to remain legal (in this context).

ROTFL!!!

Thats the best reason to use paper charts ever! Because you can't understand the written word

I Luvs youse all!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

ROTFL!!!

Thats the best reason to use paper charts ever! Because you can't understand the written word

I Luvs youse all!

Luv ya too (YBECU)
Translates as You Bl**^#y Electronic Chart User

[barnakiel]

So, are we talking about who uses charts or about whether they are legally required or not.

Imagine you are in a place where they are not required. Imagine the fjords of Chile or the coast of Canada. Imagine the plotter ist kapput.

Would you like to have the paper chart or you simply do not give a hoot?

I can imagine there is many possible answers to this, and one of them is NOT to carry the paper chart.

But only the ignorant will insist that all answers are correct.

b.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

But only the ignorant will insist that all answers are correct.

b.

Barnie!! Update yourself! I am going to have to draG YOU INTO THE 21ST cENTURY! (When hopefully the Caps Lock plays the game!)

The paper charts of the Chilean canals are useless, always have been and never been updated. So your analogy falls down... To BS the folks like me you need your facts right

Also if you look at people with more than 2 IQ points you will notice they have redundancy in their GPS and plotters. So the 'all the electrics failed' is an infantile argument.

Now, just imagine, Barnie, you are on Sea Life as my honoured guest and we are floating around the fijords of Chile...... its nice, scenic, cold.... now what would you prefer to be doing ---> Have your snout up a sextant or your eyes on those Chilean girls?

I'd break your paper habit within a week

[Astrid]

hmmmmmmmmm, sextants do have a monocular eyepiece. However, if I were your honoured guest, I would be keeping my eyes on the host of course and let him do the navigating.

[sailorboy1]

I use both. I like the paper charts to do basic route planning to be able to see a bigger picture of the area. But I like my chartplotter for getting there and correcting course and to be able to really zoom in sometimes for an area. I took a navigation course last year and it is pretty wild all the bad habits I have developed because of the chartplotter.