Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-08-2021, 12:37   #1
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,569
Do You Use Sound Signals?

There is a thread running on use of day shapes. Sound signals came up.


I don't see an exception from using sound signals for recreational or small boats, but I haven't heard a horn this year.

  • Busy commercial harbors are a different thing. I get it around ferries.
  • Fog is a different thing.
  • I have used 5-short a few times in 40 years when a situation was getting confusing, I could not see a person on watch (distressingly common), and options were limited.
But no one uses a horn routinely on recreational boat for simple crossing or passing. (A very few indicated they do, but they must be out of my earshot.) Same for leaving a slip. I don't hear horns. We look around.


On a busy day, the honking in many harbors would be indecipherable. It seems safer to reserve the horn for situations where there is real confusion, or the clear potential for it, that cannot be resolved by simply slowing down a little.



Thoughts?


INLAND— Sound and Light Signals
PART D—SOUND AND LIGHT SIGNALS RULE 32 Definitions(a) The word “whistle” means any sound signaling appliance capable of
producing the prescribed blasts and which complies with specifications in
Annex lIl to these Rules. (b) The term “short blast” means a blast of about 1 second’s duration. (c) The term “prolonged blast” means a blast of from 4 to 6 seconds’
duration.
RULE 33 Equipment for Sound Signals(a) A vessel of 12 meters or more in length shall be provided with a whistle
and a bell and a vessel of 100 meters or more in length shall, in addition, be
provided with a gong, the tone and sound of which cannot be confused with
that of the bell. The whistle, bell and gong shall comply with the
specifications in Annex lII to these Rules. The bell or gong or both may be
replaced by other equipment having the same respective sound
characteristics, provided that manual sounding of the prescribed signals
shall always be possible. (b) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall not be obliged to carry
the sound signaling appliances prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule but
if she does not, she shall be provided with some other means of making an
efficient sound signal. 115
—INLAND— Sound and Light Signals RULE 34 Maneuvering and Warning Signals(a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or
crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel
underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules: (i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
one short blast to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two
short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; and
three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”. (ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in
agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps
necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the
vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound
the danger signal specified in paragraph (d) of this Rule and each
vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing
agreement is made....
(c) When in sight of one another in a narrow channel or fairway: (i) a vessel intending to overtake another shall in compliance with Rule
9(e)(i) indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle:
two prolonged blasts followed by one short blast to mean “I intend
to overtake you on your starboard side”;
two prolonged blasts followed by two short blasts to mean “I
intend to overtake you on your port side”. (ii) the vessel about to be overtaken when acting in accordance with
Rule 9(e)(i) shall indicate her agreement by the following signal on her
whistle:
one prolonged, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, in
that order. (d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and
from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of
the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other
to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt
by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle. Such signal may
be supplemented by a light signal of at least five short and rapid flashes. (e) A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel or fairway where other
vessels may be obscured by an intervening obstruction shall sound one
prolonged blast. Such signal shall be answered with a prolonged blast by
any approaching vessel that may be within hearing around the bend or
behind the intervening obstruction.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 12:42   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,208
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Generally, I sound 1 long coming through anywhere with restricted visibility, particularly if there's not much room to stop and maneuver. Otherwise, I only signal if the situation isn't clear and there's some chance it'll help. Honestly, the signal I use most is 5 short directed at someone doing something clearly stupid and/or not paying any attention (such as sitting sideways across a narrow channel adjusting a bimini and paying no attention to traffic, jetski diving across my bow, etc.).
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 13:24   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Rock Hall, MD
Boat: Mariner 39
Posts: 693
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

There have been a few times in the past couple of months when I would have appreciated the confirmation of a whistle signal that they do in fact see me and are planning on doing the "normal thing" like a one-whistle port-to-port passage. So, I do wish it was practiced a little more.

And, as I generally hear no one else using their horns, I hesitate doing so myself. (I do raise an anchor ball, though.)
JoeRobertJr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 13:46   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 750
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Actually, in the US Inland Rules, there IS an exception to the use of sound signals for making passing arrangements, one that is used ALL THE TIME by commercial and recreational traffic.

VHF is allowed as a tool to make passing arrangements.

In the International rules no such exemption is officially allowed. It makes some kinds of sense, because with multiple languages and such miscommunication by voice could easily occur.

In the practical world, of course, on the high seas with large commercial traffic, just as under the US Inland Rules, VHF communications--in English--has essentially superseded the horn signal.

You can argue all you what as to if this is a good thing or not. It just is.

If you are not listening to VHF CH16 while sailing on the ocean you are clearly not using all the tools available to you to avoid collisions.

I routinely use sound signals when exiting a marina that has little or no visibility into a cross channel, or if just getting under way in a crowded area. This is pretty routine with commercial boats in areas I am familiar with.
BillKny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 13:57   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,372
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

In limited visibility using sound signals is much more common. Not everyone has Radar, or is watching such as often the display is inside.

For those instances, I yell MARCO.

and someone nearby replies: POLO.

Well that is when things get a tad more intense.



As to passing situations, it is much like skiing, one informs the person downslope and ahead of you, "On your right, or On your left." and then buzzes by. And if they dodge towards the direction you indicate you will be passing, one then has to yell with a bit more sense of urgency, NO YOUR OTHER RIGHT.

Okay, back to:
Montanan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 14:12   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 488
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Never.

I am based out of a very busy pleasure boat harbor. The cacophony of horns that would result would border on the ridiculous. That, and 99% of pleasure boaters around here barely know which end is the front, let alone how to interpret and respond to audible signals.

I exaggerate my nose (bow, damn it) position to make my intentions clear. I use radar at night and in poor visibility to avoid everyone to the max extent. Everyone else seems to do the same. It works.

It makes sense to me when a very large vessel uses audible signals. I don’t find them to be practical on small pleasure craft. If I am in the vicinity of large vessels, I use my VHF.
C420sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 14:20   #7
Registered User
 
Mirage35's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 1,125
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

I've been thinking about this - if I wanted to use a sound signal I'd have to dive into the cabin, search the cubby next to the chart table for an air horn, bring it back up ... maybe I need a better place to keep them.

The only time in five years I've heard them around here was the one time a small sailboat seemed to be asserting stand on status against a Great Lakes freighter. The freighter finally gave the five blasts and the sailboat changed course rather abruptly.
__________________
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
Mirage35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 14:43   #8
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Leopard Catamaran
Posts: 2,572
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Smaller boats, (especially fishing motorboats) often don't have a VHF.

Usually they follow the boat in front of them, but occasionally you get one trying to swim against the stream, and causes a backup of boats swerving to avoid the clog. A few honks, and a wave usually gets them back into the flow.

Always carry an airhorn AT HAND. Just in case you need to use it.
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 15:01   #9
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,569
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
In limited visibility using sound signals is much more common. Not everyone has Radar, or is watching such as often the display is inside.

For those instances, I yell MARCO.

and someone nearby replies: POLO.

Well that is when things get a tad more intense.



As to passing situations, it is much like skiing, one informs the person downslope and ahead of you, "On your right, or On your left." and then buzzes by. And if they dodge towards the direction you indicate you will be passing, one then has to yell with a bit more sense of urgency, NO YOUR OTHER RIGHT.

Okay, back to:

Note that the sound signals we are discussing are specifically NOT used in poor visibility. They are only to be used when in sight.


On the local bike trail (one of the early rails-to-trails projects--this one is about 50 years old), which sees a good bit of moderate to high speed bike commuter traffic, the question about signalling before passing occasionally comes up. There is a dotted yellow line down the middle, like any road. Signalling is suggested but not mandated. 95% of the time it really is not needed, not if people stay in their lanes and look before turning.



What would it be like if we honked every time we passed on the road in the normal manner? Like Manhattan, overuse means that when you hear a horn, you have no idea if it was directed at you.


---


I have never been in a marina with long fairways or anything that severely limited my view. I can see that application.



As for VHF, ships are required to monitor, but calling a recreational boat is a waste of time in most places. They don't monitor and most would just ignore the call. I know that I very, very seldom hear a passing request on the VHF. Only ever around draw bridges, where they are all on the radio anyway, to request and monitor the opening. Of course, most of the bridge operators around here don't say anything more than "OK," "I see you," or "I'll get it open." After that, they're watching auto traffic, not you. You're on your own.


As for people following Inland maneuvering rules around here, most are very good about it. I have no real complaints. Like driving a car, you expect a certain amount of non-compliance and allow for it, without getting upset.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 15:19   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
There is a thread running on use of day shapes. Sound signals came up.


I don't see an exception from using sound signals for recreational or small boats, but I haven't heard a horn this year.

  • Busy commercial harbors are a different thing. I get it around ferries.
  • Fog is a different thing.
  • I have used 5-short a few times in 40 years when a situation was getting confusing, I could not see a person on watch (distressingly common), and options were limited.
But no one uses a horn routinely on recreational boat for simple crossing or passing. (A very few indicated they do, but they must be out of my earshot.) Same for leaving a slip. I don't hear horns. We look around.


On a busy day, the honking in many harbors would be indecipherable. It seems safer to reserve the horn for situations where there is real confusion, or the clear potential for it, that cannot be resolved by simply slowing down a little.



Thoughts?


INLAND— Sound and Light Signals
PART D—SOUND AND LIGHT SIGNALS RULE 32 Definitions(a) The word “whistle” means any sound signaling appliance capable of
producing the prescribed blasts and which complies with specifications in
Annex lIl to these Rules. (b) The term “short blast” means a blast of about 1 second’s duration. (c) The term “prolonged blast” means a blast of from 4 to 6 seconds’
duration.
RULE 33 Equipment for Sound Signals(a) A vessel of 12 meters or more in length shall be provided with a whistle
and a bell and a vessel of 100 meters or more in length shall, in addition, be
provided with a gong, the tone and sound of which cannot be confused with
that of the bell. The whistle, bell and gong shall comply with the
specifications in Annex lII to these Rules. The bell or gong or both may be
replaced by other equipment having the same respective sound
characteristics, provided that manual sounding of the prescribed signals
shall always be possible. (b) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length shall not be obliged to carry
the sound signaling appliances prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule but
if she does not, she shall be provided with some other means of making an
efficient sound signal. 115
—INLAND— Sound and Light Signals RULE 34 Maneuvering and Warning Signals(a) When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or
crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other, each vessel
underway, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules: (i) shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:
one short blast to mean “I intend to leave you on my port side”; two
short blasts to mean “I intend to leave you on my starboard side”; and
three short blasts to mean “I am operating astern propulsion”. (ii) upon hearing the one or two blast signal of the other shall, if in
agreement, sound the same whistle signal and take the steps
necessary to effect a safe passing. If, however, from any cause, the
vessel doubts the safety of the proposed maneuver, she shall sound
the danger signal specified in paragraph (d) of this Rule and each
vessel shall take appropriate precautionary action until a safe passing
agreement is made....
(c) When in sight of one another in a narrow channel or fairway: (i) a vessel intending to overtake another shall in compliance with Rule
9(e)(i) indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle:
two prolonged blasts followed by one short blast to mean “I intend
to overtake you on your starboard side”;
two prolonged blasts followed by two short blasts to mean “I
intend to overtake you on your port side”. (ii) the vessel about to be overtaken when acting in accordance with
Rule 9(e)(i) shall indicate her agreement by the following signal on her
whistle:
one prolonged, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, in
that order. (d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and
from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of
the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other
to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt
by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle. Such signal may
be supplemented by a light signal of at least five short and rapid flashes. (e) A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel or fairway where other
vessels may be obscured by an intervening obstruction shall sound one
prolonged blast. Such signal shall be answered with a prolonged blast by
any approaching vessel that may be within hearing around the bend or
behind the intervening obstruction.
The COLREGS dont differentiate between commercial and recreational. The rules apply to all. There are variations in the rules based on LOA, but not on use (commercial/recreational).

That said, I have rarely used sound signals aboard small vessels. Never to establish intent, have always used VHF for that (provided for in the rules as "radio telephone"). Ive only ever used 5 shorts and limited visibility signals.

Students used to ask me this same question when learning sound signals. I explained to them that the reason to know them is that larger vessels may use them...like just before they are about to turn a small boat into fish food...they will sound appropriate sound singnals to cover their ass. So if you hear sound singals, then PAY ATTENTION!

Interesting use of the terminology though is that it has crept into conversations for establishing intent in some areas. One such area is the ICW along the Gulf of Mexico. Tug captains there will refer to 1 or 2 shorts to explain how they want to pass. Expecially around Louisiana.

Its rare to hear larger vessels use them these days except for change of status signals. Because of this it is best to listen to the appropriate VTC channel in busy areas to keep tabs on what the big boys are up to.
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 15:32   #11
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 11,832
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

I’ve used them for passing agreements inland occasionally.
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 16:43   #12
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 4,229
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

There's also a key distinction between international rules and US inland rules. Under international rules a sound signal is only required if you make a turn to alter the crossing situation "I am altering my course to starboard". If neither boat alters course then no sound signals are required.

This is significantly different from the inland rules where the sound signal proposes a passing arrangement - "I intend to leave you on my port side". Both vessels, when within a half mile of each other, are expected to make the signals. And that half-mile distinction is probably where things fall apart for small recreational vessels. A half-mile between two quarter-mile long ships is a whole different beast than between a couple of 40' sailboats.

Ad absurdum, if you do use sound signals all the time, do you use them in your outboard powered dinghy when passing other dinghies on the way to and from the dinghy dock?
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 17:53   #13
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,434
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

Not often.

One year, in New Zealand, going south towards Auckland at Christmas time when others were northbound in the fog. I really don't think it was effective. They were going north, following 45 ft or larger motor yachts with radar, in trains of about 5. I doubt any of them heard our hooting. When we figured out that there were going to be more of them, we moved further off where figured their waypoints would be, and eventually got out of the fog.

Staying off the beaten track is easy when people like to just clear the headlands, going a little way out makes a huge difference.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 18:28   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 2,874
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

It depends on the situation. For a long time I was at a marina with poor visibility due to a breakwater. There were also often kayakers just outside of the breakwater that would cross the marina entrance. Sounding a horn was mandatory to give them a chance to not cross in front of you and not get run over.
In my current marina, there is one boat that will always use signals leaving the marina, but no one else does. I have never seen a recreational boat (or for that matter a commercial boat) use a signal for passing. Ferries near me do sound the signal for operating in reverse when they back away from the dock.
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2021, 19:16   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 571
Re: Do You Use Sound Signals?

This big bugger woke me up from a pleasant nap with two big blasts a while back!

I think he was expecting an angry response but I dare say we were both having a laugh.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	big boat.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	403.1 KB
ID:	244037  
Allied39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sound Signals when at Anchor in Restricted Visibility steve77 Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 29 08-08-2014 08:00
International Code of Signals - Two-letter signals praticoborges Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 6 18-06-2014 18:23
Sound signals question estarzinger Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 17 13-01-2014 16:29
Sound & Light Signals GordMay General Sailing Forum 1 18-09-2005 13:18

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.