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Steve Kidson · 09-09-2007, 23:30

I am undertaking some "formal" studies, and a question on a recent test paper asked:

What should a sailing vessel under power with sails up display during the day?
A. Orange Diamond
B. Black Ball
C. Black Cone with apex pointing down
D. A Motoring Flag

A sailing vessel under power is a power vessel whether sails up or down.

I cannot find anywhere in our text, NSW Maritime Boating Handbook, YA Racing Rules of Sailing, or Collregs any reference to day shapes for a recreational power vessel.

I know it won't be A or D.

Anyone out there know, or point me to a source?

Thanks in advance.

Steve

curlew32 · 09-09-2007, 23:44

Rule 25: Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars

NoTies · 10-09-2007, 00:24

"C" this is to remove any confusion on whether or not your motor is on. Have only ever seen one vessel display it though.

Steve Kidson · 10-09-2007, 00:56

Thanks for the responses, I should pass my test now

.

I have never seen any vessel display this day shape; I bet there is some Chandlery somewhere with hundreds of black cones they just can't shift

Fair Winds

Steve

cooper · 10-09-2007, 02:01

Just remember if you are displaying the day mark, regardless of whether the engine is running or not, it is the right of other boats to expect you to act as a "motor boat" ie with regards to the right of way rules. It would be interesting to see what would happen if "they" started policing day marks. .....How many sailing boats even have them on board ? I do understand that the test is the test and my above comments have nothing to do with passing. The Victorian licence test includes some questions on day marks, but more to do with things like "which side do you pass a drege ?"

ps..the easiest way to do day marks is make them up out of black plastic sheet (10 mm). The ball is two circles that slide into each other at right angles etc..Making them this way means that they take up very little room and they still "present" as they should when assembled.

**Ex-Calif** · 10-09-2007, 02:23

Interesting - some versions of the regs state the motoring daymark is not required for vessels <12 meters. That's the way I learned it and was tested on it.

Amgine · 11-09-2007, 08:38

Actually, several of the chandleries I have been to here in BC do carry these daymarks. Mostly the black anchor ball, but at least a couple carry the black cone. I believe the black cones are also used for some towing day shapes... dang, my wheelhouse companion is on the boat.

bvimatelot · 11-09-2007, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kidson

Thanks for the responses, I should pass my test now

.

I have never seen any vessel display this day shape; I bet there is some Chandlery somewhere with hundreds of black cones they just can't shift

Fair Winds

Steve

All French charter boats carry them and I have heard of people being admonished and indeed fined for not using them whilst in French waters. Where I mainly sail though, if one were to hoist one, you would have every yacht in the area coming over to ask you what the heck it is! Tony

Lodesman · 11-09-2007, 17:07

Dan,

The <12 metre rule is a Canadian modification, and in the US Inland rules.

Kevin

**Ex-Calif** · 11-09-2007, 19:45

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. I learned something new as usual.

Singapore tends to follow all things British including the European channel mark colors - opposite if the US. I was tested here and the <12m was in there.

Also I have never seen anyone hoist any kind of daymarks here.

Not trying to confuse the issue. Looking again at Steve's origianl question there really is only one possible answer regardless of boat length or local rule variation.

**David M** · 05-10-2007, 21:48

On commercial boats I always require the displaying of the correct day shapes. It's the law but its also a cover my license and my rear end type of situation. It not like anyone knows what they mean other than other commercial boats. The same absolutely applies to lights. I wish I had a nickel for every time I have seen a sailboat under sail alone with it's masthead light on. (your masthead light means you are a power driven vessel)

With dredges, the day shapes really do matter. Think "go for the diamonds". Go for the balls and you may get a submerged plastic pipeline wound up in your screws or worse yet, a clamshell dripping with mud heading in your direction.

I have made day shapes. Get some of that ABS black plastic that cannot shatter instead of the brittle type of plastic.

All yachts should have an anchor ball and display it even if you are under 12 meters....you are covering your rear end should someone collide with you while at anchor or moored.

The cone on a sailboat is just ridiculous..although its the law.

Lodesman · 06-10-2007, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

The cone on a sailboat is just ridiculous.

How do you figure that? I would greatly appreciate the yotties advertising that they are, in fact, power-driven vessels and there could be the expectation that the Steering and Sailing Rules would be applied in a consistent, predictable manner.

The "forward" part of the rule is ridiculous - I think as long as it is reasonably visible, there's no reason it couldn't be hung where's it's accessible from the cockpit.

Kevin

**David M** · 06-10-2007, 13:16

Of course it could be done..it's the law. But really, who knows what an inverted cone means?..not many. The only group out there who knows what it means are the commercial guys. If a commercial boat sees a sailboat underway with a cone, he is most likely to alter course to avoid him anyway. The reality is a sailboat with the sails up and and under power is usually less maneuverable than a larger and faster power driven commercial boat.

Personally, I usually take the stern of a sailboat, engine on or not if it is going to be close. This is just out of common sense so as not to scare the people in the sailboat and so that my actions are "early and apparent" so that they understand what my intentions are. I do this even if the sailboat is under power and is the give way vessel to port in a crossing situation.

Technically you are correct Kevin. I was just looking at things from a pragmatic point of view.

**Ex-Calif** · 06-10-2007, 19:33

David - I sure wish more like you powered around here. The only rule that seems to apply here is that might makes right.

We were almost run down on a head on pass last week by a fishing trawler while close hauled beating to windward. The worst part was that we had to tack "towards" the relatively close shore to avoid a colliision - bearing away would have set up a cross which definitely would not have worked. This required waiting for his approach until the last minute as after the tack I could only hold it for a couple of minutes before I had to tack back so as to avoid the shore. I was low on options and he gave no room and no quarter. I had two newbies so I was basically single handed.

It wasn't close but it was damn inconvenient. And in a great demonstration of nautical skill I was able to complete the second tack in time to throw a full can of beer at the transom of the offending boat.

Of course at that point I had realized my mistake. Not polluting the environment but throwing a full unopened can of beer - shameful waste - especially considering I missed the fishing boat by at least 100 feet. We did, however complete a successful rescue of the BOB (beer overboard) thanks to my son's fishing net.