Computer for navigation

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Sailor279

I would not waste money on a Toughbook or some physically hardened equipment so long as it's going to be on the Nav station and not getting splashed. That said, computers die for many reasons and as primary tactician/navigator, the last thing I need is a dozen crew mates ticked off at me for not being able to forecast the next front/shift. We depend heavily on the laptop heavily for analysis and they are cheap enough to buy two. For cruising, an updated chartplotter would do just fine for nav, but be sure you have a redundant source for weather.
.

Well I've spent $295 on a used Toughbook on the recommendation of the computer technician in a fishing village. That is hardly wasting money!! Surely a computer designed for a hostile environment must be superior to a laptop designed for the home? (He says Lobster Fishermen have trouble with laptops due to corrosion)

I find it surprising there are so many different opinions out there on the best approach/equipment. Only time will tell if I have taken the right approach.

• TACNI
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• Posted February 23, 2016

I have been using a Toughbook for years held down with Velcro. I got the computer on a refurbished computer site cheap. Before this I went through two "business computers". If I needed a new computer, I would buy a used Toughbook.

[Sailor279]

If it meets your specs, then a Toughbook is as good as any system. My point was that equipment has gotten so inexpensive that you could buy two and have one as a backup. Typically, you pay a premium for a Toughbook vs. same spec biz computer, and I’d rather have a redundant system.

As an alternative to Velcro, we use a silicone baking sheet on nav station and computer+mouse doesn’t slip, even at 20+ degree heel.

[coopec43]

The computer monitor is VGA 1024X768 so I thought the external monitor would have to match that resolution but apparently not so.

Is there anyone out there (who is computer savvy) who can confirm my Toughbook would be OK with a higher resolution monitor (say) 1366X768.

[DeborahLee]

We have a separate computer for navigation but we also use this one for banking and bills. The reason is we do not surf the web with this computer or open e-mail, just the secure banking sites and that is all. Could we be hacked I'm sure we are just trying to make it more difficult.

[coopec43]

Well this is "off-topic" but it won't hurt for everyone to know what the scammers are up to. I received an email supposedly from Paypal the other day and was immediately suspicious.

When I opened it they wanted me to log into my PayPal account. I forwarded the email to PayPal for investigation.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Sailor279

I've been in tech my entire career and cybersecurity for the last 15 years or so. I've also been sailing since I was a teen (primarily racing, both ocean and inshore) and running nav software like Expedition and previously MaxSea for about the last 15 years as well -- so this topic is really intriguing to me. I'm really glad to see OpenCPN and will check that out for general nav but for performance optimization, there's no better than Expedition. That said, unless you're racing, stick with OpenCPN or your chartplotter. I love the Rasberry Pi suggestion above and may try to hack together my own.

On the SC52, we run a cheapie W10 Lenovo w/16GB, an 250G+ SSD, 15" screen that we got from eBay for $300. Extra memory always translates into faster performance (even more significant than i5 v i7 processor, etc.). I prefer the touchscreen as it helps me be more efficient, and would recommend.

I also bring a second laptop (similar specs w/identical software, fully charged and sealed in a waterproof bag) in case the first gets wet/dies. I would not waste money on a Toughbook or some physically hardened equipment so long as it's going to be on the Nav station and not getting splashed. That said, computers die for many reasons and as primary tactician/navigator, the last thing I need is a dozen crew mates ticked off at me for not being able to forecast the next front/shift. We depend heavily on the laptop heavily for analysis and they are cheap enough to buy two. For cruising, an updated chartplotter would do just fine for nav, but be sure you have a redundant source for weather.

Both laptops get updates/patched before we leave the dock and are running Defender AV/anti-malware for protection. It's built into Win10, consumes the fewest resources and is one of the leading endpoint protection software on the market. Oh, and it's free. If you're running anything but the latest Windows 10 - and fully patched at that, you are asking for trouble. It's easy enough to disable to updates while on a metered connection but update once you're on wifi again. If you don't like doing updates, you'll hate it when a crypto-miner starts consuming your valuable resources via malware - or worse. Add computer updates to your boat maintenance list.

I also load each laptop with pdf manuals of all the ship systems (paper=extra weight=slow!) for reference on how to reset or perform maintenance if something goes awry.

Putting the Raspberry Pi 4 together and loading it up with OpenCPN/Openplotter software was a fun project.

I even bought a second one to have at home and extra 32 GB SD Cards

The kit with 4 GB Ram can be had for about $99 or less but you probably don't need that much ram just for onboard nav duties

https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspb...a-805715560965

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...er-229183.html

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Well I've spent $295 on a used Toughbook on the recommendation of the computer technician in a fishing village. That is hardly wasting money!! Surely a computer designed for a hostile environment must be superior to a laptop designed for the home? (He says Lobster Fishermen have trouble with laptops due to corrosion)

I find it surprising there are so many different opinions out there on the best approach/equipment. Only time will tell if I have taken the right approach.

• TACNI
• [COLOR=#]Members[/COLOR]
• 4
• 188 posts
• Locationetroit
• Interests:Racing
• Posted February 23, 2016

I have been using a Toughbook for years held down with Velcro. I got the computer on a refurbished computer site cheap. Before this I went through two "business computers". If I needed a new computer, I would buy a used Toughbook.

You can buy 3 NEW Raspberry pi 4 computers for that amount and then get a couple extra 32 gb sd cards $15 and backup all your data. It has wifi also and you can get online with it or use tablets etc

The Raspberry Pi was recommended by a computer programmer in a way that tested it crossing a few oceans

His pypilot (autopilot) software is now included in the free openplotter OpenCPN download.

http://sailoog.com/openplotter

https://nx8035.your-storageshare.de/s/sL9doDML7P4CQDo

https://towndock.net/shippingnews/se...-and-alexandra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQuBwLSMSxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbezaHPm_MU

[Sailor279]

Originally Posted by coopec43

The computer monitor is VGA 1024X768 so I thought the external monitor would have to match that resolution but apparently not so.

Is there anyone out there (who is computer savvy) who can confirm my Toughbook would be OK with a higher resolution monitor (say) 1366X768.

@coopec43: Looks like the specs state: External video support up to 1280 x 1024 at 16.7 million colors according to CF-19 MK7's specs. But would recommend you confirm this is the same model as what you have...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sailor279

. . . I would not waste money on a Toughbook or some physically hardened equipment so long as it's going to be on the Nav station and not getting splashed. That said, computers die for many reasons and as primary tactician/navigator, the last thing I need is a dozen crew mates ticked off at me for not being able to forecast the next front/shift. We depend heavily on the laptop heavily for analysis and they are cheap enough to buy two. For cruising, an updated chartplotter would do just fine for nav, but be sure you have a redundant source for weather.. . . .

I would not use ANY laptop for navigation, ruggedized, or not. I learned the hard way not to rely on laptops not getting splashed at the nav table when a breaking wave came down my companionway in a storm, destroying my $3000 work computer. Over the years I have had countless tablets and other devices destroyed when they fell over or something fell onto them in rough sea conditions.



The best way to deal with this is with a minicomputer fixed-mounted behind an instrument panel where it really can't get splashed and really won't get bashed by something. A ruggedized laptop will certainly have better survival odds, but even that doesn't want to fly across the cabin when you come off the top of a big wave in a storm.

[DeValency]

The nav and electronics on board threads are always interesting and inspiring even if I don’t always agree with all the comments. I’ve built complex computerized/electronic systems throughout my professional life and still do a lot on my boats when I can’t find a satisfactory solution.

However, on the nav front, you have a boat valued $10K or $500K and on this critical device you’ll improvise to save maybe $300?? - and I agree you can get a well working solution, even if you consider your time at a zero $value... does it really worth it?

A boat owner will always have a long list of repairs, projects and work no one else can do where the costs are by far higher than this. But maybe there are really lucky sailors that give this a priority...

Raymarine, Simrad, B&G 7” MFDs are offered now for around $500-600, based on these as your core backbone you can connect, control and display with 10-32” screens/iPads (and somewhat limited also phones) your instruments, radar, auto pilot, communication and more in a very simple and quick way. Yes, theoretically, you can do almost the same with a Raspberry and alike with multiple interfaces, adapters, wiring etc. - does it really worth it? How easy will it be to maintain it at sea?

Just my very humble point of view here.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would not use ANY laptop for navigation, ruggedized, or not. I learned the hard way not to rely on laptops not getting splashed at the nav table when a breaking wave came down my companionway in a storm, destroying my $3000 work computer. Over the years I have had countless tablets and other devices destroyed when they fell over or something fell onto them in rough sea conditions.



The best way to deal with this is with a minicomputer fixed-mounted behind an instrument panel where it really can't get splashed and really won't get bashed by something. A ruggedized laptop will certainly have better survival odds, but even that doesn't want to fly across the cabin when you come off the top of a big wave in a storm.

Dockhead, that is a very commendable approach, but I think it is a bit too conservative. In 34 years of sailing, over 55,000 ocean miles, crossing five of the major oceans, and going through all kinds of weather, we have never had a laptop fail due to water and we have always used standard consumer laptops, running the latest versions of windows Our laptop (currently a Dell Inspiron) sits permanently on the NV station held down by a bungie cord.

The beauty of this is that we can carry a hot spare which can be substituted in a couple of minutes (we have two spares now). We use the Dell for all of our computing and it is the primary navigation system. It is fast, reliable, and cheap. Recently we have been running an Android ruggedized tablet on deck, slaved to the B&G sailing instruments and loaded with charts from the Dell and OpenCPN. (This is primarily for racing tactics and navigation).

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DeValency

The nav and electronics on board threads are always interesting and inspiring even if I don’t always agree with all the comments. I’ve built complex computerized/electronic systems throughout my professional life and still do a lot on my boats when I can’t find a satisfactory solution.

However, on the nav front, you have a boat valued $10K or $500K and on this critical device you’ll improvise to save maybe $300?? - and I agree you can get a well working solution, even if you consider your time at a zero $value... does it really worth it?

A boat owner will always have a long list of repairs, projects and work no one else can do where the costs are by far higher than this. But maybe there are really lucky sailors that give this a priority...

Raymarine, Simrad, B&G 7” MFDs are offered now for around $500-600, based on these as your core backbone you can connect, control and display with 10-32” screens/iPads (and somewhat limited also phones) your instruments, radar, auto pilot, communication and more in a very simple and quick way. Yes, theoretically, you can do almost the same with a Raspberry and alike with multiple interfaces, adapters, wiring etc. - does it really worth it? How easy will it be to maintain it at sea?

Just my very humble point of view here.

Humble but eminently sensible point of view. I totally agree.


Primary nav or rather pilotage really ought to be done with a proper purpose-built marine plotter. At less than a grand, you can't beat the price, consider the truly daylight viewable screen, rugged, waterproof, nature of the device, and the much higher degree of stability you get from the single purpose programming vs. "improvisation", as DeValency said.


On my boat, I have 2x B&G Zeus plotters, one at the helm, one at the nav table. In addition I have a minicomputer behind the electrical panel driving a fixed mount monitor and running OpenCPN. The large monitor and wonderful OpenCPN program, using mostly raster charts, is a substitute for paper for NAVIGATION, which is a different task from PILOTAGE, or the real-time orientation to surroundings while under way, in pilotage waters. For the latter task, you cannot beat a dedicated, purpose-built marine plotter, and at the low price these are now being sold, there is really hardly any excuse not to have one.


I think few people here have suggested an "improvised" laptop or Raspberry Pi solution INSTEAD of a marine plotter. Of course it should be a supplement.

[coopec43]

[QUOTE=thomm225;3085509]You can buy 3 NEW Raspberry pi 4 computers for that amount and then get a couple extra 32 gb sd cards $15 and backup all your data. It has wifi also and you can get online with it or use tablets etc

The Raspberry Pi was recommended by a computer programmer in a way that tested it crossing a few oceans

His pypilot (autopilot) software is now included in the free openplotter OpenCPN download.



Thanks for that. I suppose there are many different ways to go about it. The computer technician who I speak to suggested a NUC(?) and others on this forum swear by them.
But I am wanting a computer more than just for navigation so I (rightly or wrongly) have gone for the Toughbook.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by DeValency

The nav and electronics on board threads are always interesting and inspiring even if I don’t always agree with all the comments. I’ve built complex computerized/electronic systems throughout my professional life and still do a lot on my boats when I can’t find a satisfactory solution.
However, on the nav front, you have a boat valued $10K or $500K and on this critical device you’ll improvise to save maybe $300?? - and I agree you can get a well working so

A boat owner will always have a long list of repairs, projects and work no one else can do where the costs are by far higher than this. But maybe there are really lucky sailors that give this a priority...
Raymarine, Simrad, B&G 7” MFDs are offered now for around $500-600, based on these as your core backbone you can connect, control and display with 10-32” screens/iPads (and somewhat limited also phones) your instruments, radar, auto pilot, communication and more in a very simple and quick way. Yes, theoretically, you can do almost the same with a Raspberry and alike with multiple interfaces, adapters, wiring etc. - does it really worth it? How easy will it be to maintain it at sea?

Just my very humble point of view here.

You hit it right on the head as far as I am concerned.
After building my yacht from scratch I am not looking for further projects.

[thomm225]

[QUOTE=coopec43;3085849]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You can buy 3 NEW Raspberry pi 4 computers for that amount and then get a couple extra 32 gb sd cards $15 and backup all your data. It has wifi also and you can get online with it or use tablets etc

The Raspberry Pi was recommended by a computer programmer in a way that tested it crossing a few oceans

His pypilot (autopilot) software is now included in the free openplotter OpenCPN download.



Thanks for that. I suppose there are many different ways to go about it. The computer technician who I speak to suggested a NUC(?) and others on this forum swear by them.
But I am wanting a computer more than just for navigation so I (rightly or wrongly) have gone for the Toughbook.

So what do computer techs know about being on a sailboat?

Btw, I'm an electronics tech/computer tech also

I remember our first 80 mb drives were the size of small dishwashers in the 80's