Charting and navigation?

[chasmains]

Well, I’m not getting why your hubby is not taking a navigation course. I think you need to know what you are looking at on a software nav package. I consider the basics critical to safety. If he doesn’t know the difference between a green buoy and a red bouy ahead of your boat, how will he know what’s the best path though them? ASA-106 is a home course for navigation produced by American Sailing Association. He can take it in his own speed and either take the test to judge his knowledge or not. About $300 for everything. Other sailing organizations have courses too. I took it and am glad I did. I served in the Navy as Navigator on 2 nuclear submarines. I was well trained and was successful with many tight rivers and waterways (35’ keel depth) as well as open ocean. But years later, ASA-106 was a great refresher. After the course, hubby will feel much more competent out there and understand his chart software, and you will too.

[Curryfrog]

Paper.
Whatever electric gizmos you use, you can't beat paper when the lights go out without warning.

[IOM]

Some interesting comments against OpenCPN.

Personally, not being very computer literate, I found OpenCPN to be very intuitive, and easy to learn, with features integrated into it, that none of the other apps or marine specific equipment have. The best part is I could easily learn to use it on dry land with a GPS puck and a laptop in my car or in a cab. When I got out I to the wet and wonderful world pf the ocean, I was already able to use opencpn competently. Having observed various boat owners with all the latest gimmickry and no knowledge of how to use it except turn it on I figured I was safer with something I could actually use , as opposed to something I had to learn to use on the water where things happen. And yes I have had the opportunity to try a few marine systems, old and new, as well as the navionics app, and managed with a huge amount of RTFM to get some of them to serve me. Over time I have managed to get some of them to work, but will still go back to OpenCPN if I need to be sure I'm getting it right. The best part is I can have the same software on my raspberry pi, laptop, tablet and mobile, which make life so much simpler.
Having all the latest and best gear doesn't make you any safer, having equipment that you know how to use when you need to, will definitely make you safer. And then there is one small benifit none of the other equipment has. If it doesn't suite your needs, you will not have spent a fortune on white elephant.

[CyKlop]

Originally Posted by loneshark64

I will never understand why people will spend 50-100k on a boat, and then try to get away with charting on used laptops from eBay. Charting is safety equipment. Would you skimp like this on your anchor or PFD? These guys that always want to push open source software, a raspberry pi and gps dongles on new sailors are irresponsible know it alls and should be ignored.

Had to respond to this. Before I do, let's make sure to understand that I agree with LoneShark's confusion how people will spend lots of money for a boat and then cheap out on the chartplotter, etc. Seconded on that sentiment.


HOWEVER...


I disagree with the evaluation of raspberry pi/OpenCPN pushers as being irresponsible. Like all things, it's a potential solution though not a panacea, any more than Navionics, a dedicated chartplotter, Expedition, etc. is the panacea.

Let's say the OP buys a new chart plotter. Now they have to install it, including any necessary conversions to/from NMEA 2000, NMEA183, SeaTalk, SeaTalk NG wires, get it to talk to the other sensors, wiring for power and data, etc. Yes, (at least some of) this also has to be done with a PI as well, I admit, but if you're going that deep into it, then plugging a few more things into a Raspberry Pi isn't all that much more difficult. If your solution to the installation is to suggest they get a competent installer to do the installation for them, well, heck, there are likely people locally (or on this forum) that can get him up and running with a Raspberry Pi/OpenCPN as well.


And, yes, a laptop running down at the nav station can be displayed on something at the helm without exposing the laptop to salt spray. I do this on my boat using an iPad at the helm station. But, yeah, that requires even more computer tinkering to get working.


The big advantage to a chartplotter (or similar marine-grade electronic items) is its resistance to the marine environment. No matter what you do, a computer at the nav station will STILL be exposed to a marine environment - salt water aerosols, etc., that will eat away at the (unsealed) electronics. On the other hand, I can buy 40 Raspberry Pis for the price of a new chart plotter, so that's a lot of longevity for Raspberry Pis As with everything, you pays your money and you takes your chances.



There are pros and cons to both Laptop/Raspberry Pi versus single purpose chart plotters. The "right" solution is very much context dependent on a number of variables, all of which should be balanced when looking at things as a "systems" approach, which analysis includes looking at the people in the system as well as the inanimate objects.

[CyKlop]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I have never understood the part about a chart plotter at the helm. Most times you are not at the helm and when you are in close enough there are plenty of visual aids including channel markers, buoys etc.

Mmmm... I run my boat in two modes "racing" and "cruising". Although the needs for each of those modes is slightly different, having the the course information along with all the assorted sensor information right there at the helm is important. Why? Because if the boat is in motion, there is _always_ someone at the helm except if they are doing a fast deck walk, or going to the bathroom. I don't want someone abandoning their watch in order to go below to look at the nav display to see if they're on course (or even to get the current lat/lon for the log).


Sure, if coastal, there's stuff to look at to get location, but that's beside the fact of knowing exactly where you are. People make far too many mistakes compared to a good nav display (plus that takes a too much concentration away from their primary job of keeping watch. Too much attention compared to glancing at the nav display). If ocean sailing, then there's really not much to use for positioning than the nav display though it could also be said that it's less important as there is less stuff to hit too.


Anyway, put me firmly in the camp of wanting a chartplotter-like display at the helm.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by CyKlop

Anyway, put me firmly in the camp of wanting a chartplotter-like display at the helm.

Cannot imagine cruising much of the British Columbia coast without being able to visualize charts (chartplotter for us; paper for some others) at the helm.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by CyKlop

Mmmm... I run my boat in two modes "racing" and "cruising". Although the needs for each of those modes is slightly different, having the the course information along with all the assorted sensor information right there at the helm is important. Why? Because if the boat is in motion, there is _always_ someone at the helm except if they are doing a fast deck walk, or going to the bathroom. I don't want someone abandoning their watch in order to go below to look at the nav display to see if they're on course (or even to get the current lat/lon for the log).


Sure, if coastal, there's stuff to look at to get location, but that's beside the fact of knowing exactly where you are. People make far too many mistakes compared to a good nav display (plus that takes a too much concentration away from their primary job of keeping watch. Too much attention compared to glancing at the nav display). If ocean sailing, then there's really not much to use for positioning than the nav display though it could also be said that it's less important as there is less stuff to hit too.


Anyway, put me firmly in the camp of wanting a chartplotter-like display at the helm.

Nice.

I'm rarely at the helm so don't do watch from there. Plus I sail single handed.

As soon as I clear the fairway and am into the creek, I hookup and turn on the autopilot then go forward to raise sail.

It is nice though now that I have built this chart plotter with a Raspberry Pi 4 using OpenCPN and having GPS and AIS coming in from my VHF (and GPS Puck) because now all I have to do is take a glance below into the cabin to see exactly where I am. The display is on a 19" HDTV. I also have a laptop onboard for the same thing and a backup RPI 4.

Before I'd be up under the dodger with my large chart blowing around while I got a fix on my position using my 1990's Garmin GPS and vintage Humminbird Depth finder sometimes with 2'-3' of water under the keel while I skirted the edge of a shoal for a few miles while making slight steering adjustments by reaching back to the autopilot control buttons. This with the boat heel over sometimes at 20-25 degrees or more.

The 15 years I raced I had no instruments although a GPS display would have been nice. I raced single handed with a spinnaker so I would be quite busy at times

One tough thing was making the lay line tack call if I had the lead near the mark that is after I located the mark.

I think the picture of me on the trapeze bent at the waste is me searching for the upwind mark. The spinnaker jammed before I got it all the way into the sock but I had to leave it and tack as I had rounded the downwind mark..

Photo with spinnaker up is me in second place. I knew exactly where I was and wasn't happy about it as I wasn't in the lead as we crossed the start finish line.

[GrowleyMonster]

I don't find OCPN to be difficult to use, though there are so many features and customizations that it does take time to massage the system into exactly what suits you. it doesn't hold your hand and make all your decisions for you. It runs nicely on an old Samsung Tab 2 7" and it runs nicely on a laptop with Pentium or better and 4GB running Ubuntu. I'm sure it will do fine under WInDOHs, too, but any popular LInux flavor will be a lot more efficient and less hassle without all the Microsoft crap. Add a cheap USB GPS and bobs yer uncle. And yeah I have ran it on a Raspberry Pi. It is maybe not quite as fast, but that is seldom really a real world issue, and the newest iteration of the Pi, with 4GB, is very close in performance to a typcial laptop, and has pretty good graphics capability, a weakness of the Pi 3B and below. The 4 will support dual monitors. Not bad for a computer the size of a cigarette pack. You can of course build up any sort of weatherproof monitor you like, if you want one outside. Or do what I do in the cockpit, keep a 7" tablet like the aforementioned Tab 2 in a zip lock bag. The Tab 2 has internal GPS.

For Hawaii use the free NOAA charts. For Tahiti you can use CM93 for open water, but you will need to buy large scale harbor charts.

In addition to your chart plotter, which ever sort you use, I would urge you to keep a DR track on a paper chart or plot sheet. It's what any prudent navigator would do, especially on a bigger boat with plenty of room for spreading out a chart once a day. Log your hourly GPS fix, course steered, estimated speed as well as GPS generated speed over ground, wind direction and speed, all that. You can't go back and get that information later if you don't record it now. If something happens and you lose all ability to generate electricity, for instance, even if you don't know a thing about celestial navigation you would probably be surprised how accurately you can make landfall just by DR navigation if you really are meticulous about it.

When you download the NOAA charts, be sure to download the pilot charts too. Once you learn to read them, they are a wealth of information on prevailing wind, wave, and current conditions you can expect. Very useful for route planning.

I really would urge that if nothing else, learn two elements of celestial navigation. One is how to take an azimuth or amplitude and check your magnetic compass. The other is how to take your Latitude directly from an LAN (Local Apparent Noon, when the Sun is highest in the sky and therefore directly over your Longitude) observation of the Sun, or from Polaris. Only slightly more involved is taking Latitude from meridian passage of other bodies like the Moon or Venus. But the simplest Latitude observation is taking the Sun at LAN, and you don't even need accurate time for that, if you just continually observe as the Sun arcs up, stops, and starts back down again. Even having nothing but your Latitude is a tremendous advantage. It is like being in the land of the blind, except you have one eye. Old time navigators, before chronometers, often would sail down the Latitude for a perfect landfall, more or less just guessing their Longitude by DR as they went. That, shooting the Sun at LAN and calculating Latitude, is your gateway drug into Celestial. It is dead easy, too. And checking the compass daily is something no professional navigator would neglect. You need to know what your deviation is at different compass headings to take full advantage of your compass.

[fred4936]

I also like OpenCPN. Works very well. But I have it on an older laptop that I can't read in the sun. So check to see if you can read your laptop outside. They do make laptops specifically for use outdoors, mine is not one of them. But I also have a chartplotter at the helm, one at the nay station, and use iSailor on my phone and iPad. I like iSailor the best out of all of them.

[CyKlop]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Nice.

I'm rarely at the helm so don't do watch from there. Plus I sail single handed.

I do a lot of single-hand sailing as well. I didn't mean to imply that there aren't other ways of doing things. I probably should have said that on my boat, that's how it's done - hand steering all the time, someone at the helm, rather than autopilot _except_ when I have to (like you) go forward and raise sails. Then I would likely turn on the autopilot - if it were working (my next project is to fix it).


I've had to do the "Point the nose into the wind, run forward, raise the sail part way, run back to the helm, point the nose into the wind, run back, raise the sail some more, run back to the helm" tango and it's NOT a good way (nor smart way, nor intelligent way nor safe way) to do things, I admit.


Now, if I were cruising solo long distance then, yeah, definitely would have an autopilot (or, more likely, windvane steering) system running. I don't have the power reserves on my boat to run an autopilot for very long anyway.


The way my setup works is:


B&G Zeus 3 chart plotter at nav station connected to NMEA2000 data bus, also acting as a wireless hub to be used ONLY by captain and navigator. On the NMEA 2000 data bus I also have the other sensors or instruments too.


Raspberry Pi 4 at the nav station also connected to the NMEA2000 data bus but also utilizing its own (external) GPS receiver, broadcasting a separate wireless server for use by crew and crew stations. This raspberry Pi runs a lot more than OCPN while under way, such as data logging, etc.



At the helm, connected to the "crew" wireless system is an iPad in a waterproof case, complete with sunshield, running either navionics, TimeZero, or a number of other navigation software I've accumulated over the years, or else repeating the Raspberry Pi (or B&G) display.


On my wrist is my phone in a waterproof, surrounded by water resistant, case so that anywhere on the boat, I can see the important numbers such as wind speed, boat speed, awa, twa, etc.


When helming, though, I want that helmsperson to not be fussing with stuff, leaving the helm (no autopilot, generally) to look at the chart plotter, etc. so I have that iPad display right there for them.


At the nav station I also have my laptop running Expedition and CPN for weather charting, planning, etc.



So, yeah, I have more navigation information available than I need. It kind of ends the whole, "yeah, but what if ___ fails? What do you do then?" answer: Use one of the other navigation systems aboard. In an extreme case, get out my sextant and take a sun or moon shot (though with two GPS pucks, and at least one phone, none of which are connected to the boat wiring, the chances of all of them being killed at the same time is less likely than the boat sinking, rendering navigation somewhat moot...


Oh, and what do I do if the iPad at the helm dies? I have a Standard Horizon Chart plotter on a swing-out arm that can be moved into the companionway. It's difficult to see, but better than having to do down the companionway, through the foyer, past the head, to the nav station to look at the chart plotter, then reverse back up to the free-wheeling helm.


How things are set up, and the procedures defined, depend on the kind of sailing you do, the equipment you have, your own (or crew's) skills, how many crew you have, etc. Different people come up with different compromises. At the end of the day, there isn't a perfect system. Can't optimize for all variables, unfortunately.

I should note that my boat is a 43' C&C "Customs' ocean racer-cruiser more towards the "racer" side.

[Mrs.]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

Does he currently use a mobile phone or tablet?
If so, have a look at Navionics (as well as OpenCPN).

Even better, sign up for a marine navigation course.

Phone.

[Mrs.]

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

Ignore the naysayers. Make up your own mind. Try them all, but don't skip OpenCPN. Its easy as pie, reliable, intuitive and the closest thing to a full blown ECDIS on commercial ships (like Transas and Navisailor) that you can download and use. Unlike commercial applications that exist for profit only, OpenCPN is driven by sailors, for sailors, for you.

Thank you.

[Mrs.]

Originally Posted by StuM

Strange, I find OpenCPN intuitive and easy to use. I dont find it annoying, frustrating or cumbersome.

DON"T waste your money buying an iPad until you've tested what runs on your current equipment! )

Thank you I'll keep that in mind.

[Mrs.]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Paper charts might also be a good idea at first.



Did your boat come with any?



Mine came with the large charts for the East Coast of the USA from Massachusetts south to Florida and the Bahamas..

I believe so.
Thing is,this wasn't my idea to go sailing so I know squat. Just posting for him since,well,you know. I'll most likely get a place here in the area (California)while he does his thing.

[CaptainRivet]

Suggest to get
1)an Android tablet with 11 or 12" screen size, wifi version is enough water tight case for it
2) external bluetooth gps puck like Garmin glo2 3)2 big powerbanks just in case light goes out
4) yacht device nmea wifi dongle (with adapter cable seatalk ng to Nmea 2000
5) install navionics and Isailor nav apps
6)install a water tight usb port at tne helm station and get a holder to mount the tablet fixed at the helm if needed.

Was my navigation delivery setup for years to be independent from whatever was installed on the yacht I delivered.
I have raymarine installed on my cat but still use this delivery setup as primary navigation.
GPS puck delivers GPS via Bluetooth which needs much less battery plus more precise then the built-in if you use a GSM tablet.
Navionics is the Primary nav app i am using together with raymarine remote app to remotely steer the build in chartplotter 7" at the helm. Isailor runs as backup can remote steer my old raymarine autopilot via the yacht device Nmea dongle. So the tablet is a full chartplotter.
All very easy to install and a tablet is much more versatile then a build in chart plotter.