Big $$$ Chartplotter or Computer App(s)

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Jon, with the big screens on your PCs and all the time you might be on them, and three refers, I wonder how 450 watts of solar can keep up.

Fred, our single top-opening fridge/freezer, with 4"/10cm or more of insulation all around, is our biggest electricity consumer by far, consuming almost 60Ah/day, & it's pretty efficient. I can't imagine how you can drive 3 reefers with only 450W (~150Ah/day on a good day) of solar without significant outside charging.

And, being a cat, we have 3x as much solar. We replaced ours recently, as they're cheap & efficient now, even here in the Philippines - $0.50/Watt!

Computers are also getting more efficient with their power. We run ours through dedicated 12->19v power supplies. I think they draw about ~2A@12v most of the time, possibly more when thinking hard. The SSD consumes less than a spinning disk, & the PS is only good for 4A (45W). We leave our nav computer on when we're close to land, but not on passage.

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

First let me say if you think boat electronics are expensive I urge you never to get into aviation. When I came to boating I was surprised how CHEAP the electronics are compared to what I was used to.
.

Preach.

After dropping $8500 to have a USED GPS installed in my airplane, buying new marine kit felt like I was getting ridiculous bang for the buck.

Then I had to bite the bullet for a new ADS-B transponder. Another $6500. Now I’m looking at a Lycoming engine rebuild—$35,000 when all is said and done. For a 1940s tech engine.

It is weird seeing FAA certified A&P IAs charging far less per hour than most marina labor rates...that I’ll never figure out.

Anyway, back to marine stuff...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Fred, our single top-opening fridge/freezer, with 4"/10cm or more of insulation all around, is our biggest electricity consumer by far, consuming almost 60Ah/day, & it's pretty efficient. I can't imagine how you can drive 3 reefers with only 450W (~150Ah/day on a good day) of solar without significant outside charging...

... We leave our nav computer on when we're close to land, but not on passage.

I guess I misunderstood something, I thought it was you who said you had three refer units. We have only one, which draws about 75ah and we cannot run it on 280 watts of solar.

The laptop is 3a but the 24" monitor is another 3a.

When cruising the laptop use is limited and the big screen is OFF.

AND, our outside charging is the main engine. We are so constrained!

We miss the Philippines and everytime we see a note or comment about where you are we re wistful.

Fred

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Panama Red

On the boat I have a Raymarine system so to go to Garmin I will need new instruments, MFD, new mounting system and a Garmin NMEA compatible wiring, new mast, replace the anchor and I don’t think the marina will allow me to keep my slip.

Unlike aviation my experience in boating is that everything is un-compatible all the time.

I have a Garmin in my airplane, with a bubble canopy, it can not be read during the day, it is too bright at night (reflects off of all sections of the canopy). The data base can not be updated, very user unfriendly for aviation, but it looks good to visitors in the hangar. IPAD works so much better and is 1/10th the price. IPAD also replicates all flight instruments. My opinion on Garmin, if you don’t need it, then buy it.

Sorry about the negative comments about Garmin, but Garmin is the West Marine of the aviation electronic world.

I'm in the same boat with Garmin and airplanes lol. I have a 650 in my RV-8 and yes, I can fly an LPV approach to the ground fully coupled, but it cost like $8k.

Unfortunately in the aviation world if you want IFR certified GPS, at least for light aircraft, you have almost no choice.

In the water world there's lots of choices. My limited experience with OpenCPN/openplotter is very favorable. I also have an iPad with aqua map mounted on the helm pedestal, and today I'm running power there so I'll have a USB power outlet for it.

I do like the Garmin user interface however. They've spend a lot of effort to get this right, and the pretty much have. If you use multiple Garmin devices, even switching between planes and boats, the interfaces feel very familiar so the learning time is short.

I'm not a big fan of touch screens in either planes or boats due to turbulence/motion and also water/rain/wet fingers. Unfortunately that seems to be where the market is going.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

Preach.

After dropping $8500 to have a USED GPS installed in my airplane, buying new marine kit felt like I was getting ridiculous bang for the buck.

Then I had to bite the bullet for a new ADS-B transponder. Another $6500. Now I’m looking at a Lycoming engine rebuild—$35,000 when all is said and done. For a 1940s tech engine.

It is weird seeing FAA certified A&P IAs charging far less per hour than most marina labor rates...that I’ll never figure out.

Anyway, back to marine stuff...

That's why I fly an experimental lol and do ALL my own work, engines, electronics, etc. I pay an AP& $500/year to sign off my conditional, that's it. That way I'm intimately familiar with the airplane, and I know the work has been done properly.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by rreid01

I run OpenCPN on my large screen laptop and use it for all my route planning. I then upload the completed routes to the Chartplotter at my helm station. The laptop with a gps puck acts as the backup to my Chartplotter for navigation. The laptop is also my entertainment center at anchor. I run AquaMap on an iPad to locate and research shore services. It is plenty robust to also be a fallback navigation tool.

This approach has worked quite well for me.

this is my eventual plan, with the exception that I have a SeaTalk-1 to SeaTalk-ng/NMEA2000 converter giving me an NMEA 2000 devicenet backbone. My pi/opencpn connects to this so not only does it give me all the SeaTalk data (depth, boat speed, water temp, heading, wind speed and direction) but I can put in a good quality marine GNS system. I'm probably going to go with the Garmin unit, its a few hundred bucks, and everything can use it including the pi and my old raymarine plotters.

Aquamap itself is better than the raymarine charts HOWEVER and this is biggie, I have not found the GPS on the iPad to be particularly good. I did purchase a BadElf GPS puck and that will misbehave too. Sometimes showing me displaced 1-2,000' feet. Obviously not good. We were navigating some of the narrow and shallow ICW spots when it went tango uniform the last time.

Moral for me is that the iPad, while it shows useful data and is handy for checking things when not at the helm, should never be 100% relied upon. Its a useful tool, but does not displace the need for a robust, marinized, purpose built chart plotter (at least for me).

[bensolomon]

Use ipad air 4 with iSailor charts. It's in a waterproof case at the helm, in a RAM mount on the binnacle. I installed a Rokk (from scanstrut) waterproof USB 2.4 amp charger and keep the iPad plugged in. Flawless for the past 9 years. I can read it in the sun, although I have to shade it with my hand. I have my log book on it, tides, radar and itunes which is Bluetooth to the boat stereo.

I have a CPT wheel pilot (no go to wpt, just hold a course).

[artisthos]

I have been hashing through all the possibilities and now have to make hay. Was going with Raymarine Element 9 S MFD w/ Nav+ US & Canada Chart & RAYMARINE–Quantum CHIRP Pulse Compression. Now I think the GARMIN–GPSMAP 743xsv Multifunction Display with GMR 18HD+ Radome, BlueChart g3 and LakeVu g3 Charts is better. This is a new install in a 32' Bayfield sailboat we're taking to Europe for a three year voyage from Lake Erie. Wish I could get a very small radar and plotter. Seems everything is one size fits all. A 18" dome on a 32' is overkill. We just need to see 1 mile ahead in fog and coming into a known port in the dark.
Hoping the GARMIN–GPSMAP 743xsv has a low power mode while navigating to a waypoint. I wish it also came with a barometer and weather app. We'll also have OpenCPN on a laptop and cell phones as a backup. As much as I would like to just use OpenCPN I just can't sell it to the owner. He likes the turn key, no brainer aspect of marine electronic providers. Probably get their InReach SE for communications and waypoint tracking. Also have a Iridium phone.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by artisthos

I have been hashing through all the possibilities and now have to make hay. Was going with Raymarine Element 9 S MFD w/ Nav+ US & Canada Chart & RAYMARINE–Quantum CHIRP Pulse Compression. Now I think the GARMIN–GPSMAP 743xsv Multifunction Display with GMR 18HD+ Radome, BlueChart g3 and LakeVu g3 Charts is better. This is a new install in a 32' Bayfield sailboat we're taking to Europe for a three year voyage from Lake Erie. Wish I could get a very small radar and plotter. Seems everything is one size fits all. A 18" dome on a 32' is overkill. We just need to see 1 mile ahead in fog and coming into a known port in the dark.
Hoping the GARMIN–GPSMAP 743xsv has a low power mode while navigating to a waypoint. I wish it also came with a barometer and weather app. We'll also have OpenCPN on a laptop and cell phones as a backup. As much as I would like to just use OpenCPN I just can't sell it to the owner. He likes the turn key, no brainer aspect of marine electronic providers. Probably get their InReach SE for communications and waypoint tracking. Also have a Iridium phone.

Lots of smaller and lighter radars out there. Especially if you are looking for basic. The smallest I've seen is just over a foot in diameter and very lightweight which is also important for anything going up on a boat. You'd also have an issue selling me on OpenCPN given I've no idea how I can get charts for my area.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Lots of smaller and lighter radars out there. Especially if you are looking for basic. The smallest I've seen is just over a foot in diameter and very lightweight which is also important for anything going up on a boat. You'd also have an issue selling me on OpenCPN given I've no idea how I can get charts for my area.

Very easy to get charts for Newfoundland (and rest of Canada) for OpenCPN: raster from CHS (buy "key" from marine store such as Marine Outfitters or Binnacke) or vector from O-Charts.

CHS raster is pricier but best. O-charts is same as CHS vector but much cheaper.

Great thing is you can update monthly and KNOW THEY ARE UP-TO-DATE (in contrast to Navionics, CMAP, etc).

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

... You'd also have an issue selling me on OpenCPN given I've no idea how I can get charts for my area.

We've found that the commercial charts for MFDs are OK for developed areas (US, CA, probably Europe) but once you get off the beaten track (we're in SE Asia) they're universally horrible, often displaced & with low resolution.

So we've been making our own high-resolution navigational charts for OpenCPN since 2014, using satellite imagery (Google Earth back then). These are great, as the geo-registration is amazing. We can see individual coral-heads, & they're exactly where they're plotted.

OpenCPN v5 allowed the use of mbTiles, which have several advantages. We now make our mbTiles charts from ArcGIS, Google Earth, Bing (MSFT), & Nokia satellite imagery, as well as from CMap & Navionics nautical charts. Using Chart Groups, I can switch between charts with a single keystroke, to see which is best for where I am at the moment, cycling through 5 charts in about 2 seconds.

If you're interested in doing this yourself, I've published a How-To guide to Making mbTiles. I've tried to write it so even a novice can make high-quality navigational charts, so I encourage folks to ask questions, so I can update the original text as well.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Very easy to get charts for Newfoundland (and rest of Canada) for OpenCPN: raster from CHS (buy "key" from marine store such as Marine Outfitters or Binnacke) or vector from O-Charts.

CHS raster is pricier but best. O-charts is same as CHS vector but much cheaper.

Great thing is you can update monthly and KNOW THEY ARE UP-TO-DATE (in contrast to Navionics, CMAP, etc).

This may be the old man in me but I prefer the simple turn it on and it performs the dedicated task it has been assigned. I have a Navionics on my binnacle that has suffered the abuse of the elements for a decade and has never failed me. Any other electronics with screens onboard are for entertainment. Having dealt with haulouts and launching for well beyond twenty years now I'll be the first to argue that computers have not yet been made for the marine environment and therefore prudence says pick the tool.made for the job.

[artisthos]

I agree you need a dedicated marine system. Went looking for smaller domes and came across this one:

Furuno 1623 LCD Radar System
Display Size: 6" Type: Monochrome Transflective LCD Display
Antenna: 15" Radome, Power Output: 2.2 kW , 10 meter Cable
Power: 12 or 24 VDC Only, Consumption: 36 Watts
Item #: 254879 Brand: Furuno Model #: 1623
Price:$1,295.00

With a GPS pod it can also track waypoints. Hoping in tracking mode it does not use up the ship's battery until our daily recharge. This radar does not interface with OpenCPN. Although I love the fact that it displays everything: XTrack, wind direction, compass, depth, position, speed, range & bearing. Nothing fancy but gets the job done.

Can someone suggest a 12” dome that works with OpenCPN?


https://www.furuno.com/files/Manual/..._MODEL1623.pdf

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

This may be the old man in me but I prefer the simple turn it on and it performs the dedicated task it has been assigned. I have a Navionics on my binnacle that has suffered the abuse of the elements for a decade and has never failed me. Any other electronics with screens onboard are for entertainment. Having dealt with haulouts and launching for well beyond twenty years now I'll be the first to argue that computers have not yet been made for the marine environment and therefore prudence says pick the tool.made for the job.

Understandable.

Just be aware that Navionic's chart "updates" often take a long time to include Canadian (CHS) chart updates, if ever. (I'm following some CHS updates that 6 mos later are still NOT in so-called "updated" Navionics charts.)

[250224]

Originally Posted by artisthos

I agree you need a dedicated marine system. Went looking for smaller domes and came across this one:

Furuno 1623 LCD Radar System
Display Size: 6" Type: Monochrome Transflective LCD Display
Antenna: 15" Radome, Power Output: 2.2 kW , 10 meter Cable
Power: 12 or 24 VDC Only, Consumption: 36 Watts
Item #: 254879 Brand: Furuno Model #: 1623
Price:$1,295.00

Not sure, I'd go with this in the 21st century. I have an old monochrome LCD radar (from another manufacturer) and will move away. It's down below at the chart table, not very easy to read and rather complicate to operate; I expect an overlay on the plotter will be much nicer. Energy consumption of 36 W is high, iirc modern radomes have half of this.

Originally Posted by artisthos

Can someone suggest a 12” dome that works with OpenCPN?

Here is the list with the supported OpenCPN radars: https://www.opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwik...is_radar:radar Sorry, don't know which of them is 12".

-- Further up you mentioned Raymarine Element and Quantum. I also considered this (because I like physical knobs and someone here spoke highly of it) but after some reflection will most likely go with a B&G Halo and Vulcan 7. It's about the same price but Halo works with OpenCPN (and I very much do want this option). Radar is ~expensive but the (Vulcan) chartplotter is not really $$$ money in comparison to a good tablet.