Big $$$ Chartplotter or Computer App(s)

[patprice]

Since electronic charting arrived I have done a lot of cruising in both the Pacific and the Med. Have used a laptop on the chart table. OpenCPN etc.
Occasionally it comes a bit of a nuisance when for example approaching a harbour or other "close quarters" situation. But eyeball is 50% in that situation. If need be stop the boat and clarify things.
Some years ago a professional skipper introduced me to the concept of "IIE". Read Instrument Induced Error. Plotter or laptop, very useful but not perfect.

[kryg]

Why go to all that trouble? There is enough to do on a boat anyway, without adding more to-do jobs. In my case a brought a Panasonic Tough book 31 CF there inexpensive 2nd hand effective and robust build for the outdoors excellent for navigation in all weather.

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

All good considerations and I am at fault for not saying the PC will not be off the shelf. I build my own to meet my specs. I've built them to meet much harsher industrial environments than you would ever see on the water. The monitor(s) would also meet my specs. for harsh a environment, as in you could submerse them and they keep on working.


Thanks for your input!

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

You don't have to spend BIG $$$ toget a chartplotter, unless you want a 12" display. Our boat has two garmin GMI-20 MFDs in pods to each side of the pedestal and a 9" chartploter on the pedestal guard. We also added a 7" chartplotter at the navstation. I like that they all are weather proof, glare resistant, CAN'T FALL OVERBOARD, they were all pretty much 'Plug & Play', and I can't forget them at home. All the displays and charts cost less than $2500. If you were to buy a new phone/laptop you'd spend about the same, plus what ever you need to get the sensors to even talk to them, and possibly even a software subscription to make it all work.

Not so fast there Dude

GMI 20 @$550 ea X 2 $1100
GMT Transceiver. $ 150
GFL 10 $ 199 (Don’t know what is it, but you need it)
G Wind meter. $ 600
GPS 19X NMEA. $250
GST 43 Speed/Temp Transducer. $. 200
Short Haul to mount Transducers. $400
Chart Plotter @$1000 X 2. $2000
25 hours install @$100/hr. $2500
OR
on my boat with me doing the work for free, 100 hours and 10 trips to West Marine for all the miscellaneous parts/connectors and tools to make it work.

Total Cost. $7400

This does include the Chart subscriptions.

I agree that IPADs and cell phones are not ideal, fully functional chart plotter is the way to go, if you want to spend the money. But today’s chart plotter/electronics only have an expected company life support of about 5-7 years. When they go out of business, or discontinue the product and NMEA 3000 becomes the standard, you get to do it all again.

If I were to sell my boat and buyer would pay me to run the wiring, I would charge $500 an hour. It is a real pain.

[Clivevon]

I chose a Raymarine chart plotter/AIS/Radar at the helm so thats my vote. Depends how familiar you are with fiddling around with computers I guess - I started using them in business in the very early 80s & always had a man to set them up/fix them up. I like the dedicated, relatively easy to use chartplotter - but I also have paper charts & 3 other GPS sets - plus the phone & iPad. You also must be able to dim your viewscreen right down at night - whatever you use.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

I’ve gotta say...I love having the big touchscreen with everything integrated. Waterproof, hard mounted, plug and play...everything just works. No fiddling, no tweaking, no adapters, no charging. Turn it on, it works every time. Radar, sonar, AIS, cameras, nav...it’s all right there.

But I’m also the type that doesn’t like phones and iPads. I avoid them like the plague. So I think a lot has to do with personality.

Second all that. And this is no question of the "old way" vs. "new way" The best way is the one that gives you a large easily read screen at the helm which is weatherproof. Weatherproof.

The alternative is to have to go below deck to see this information. Time and energy lost, as well as the lookout if you are singlehanding.

[Clivevon]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Second all that. And this is no question of the "old way" vs. "new way" The best way is the one that gives you a large easily read screen at the helm which is weatherproof. Weatherproof.

The alternative is to have to go below deck to see this information. Time and energy lost, as well as the lookout if you are singlehanding.

Very good point. In tight close quarters collision avoidance at night you are much safer staying on deck with all the info at your fingertips.

[Clivevon]

Tight being multiple targets within 5 miles across your track.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

12v ruggedised PC, (not a laptop) with low consumption CPU running OpenCPN integrated with AP, AIS transponder, 3G radar, instruments and GPS, large 24in monitor at nav station (individually switched) and 8inch waterproof industrial touchscreen monitor in cockpit (individually switched). Wireless keyboard/mouse.

All instruments are self standing and a complete backup PC can be plugged in at any time, monitors can be turned off when not in use to minimise power draw without loosing tracking or log.

System is easily upgraded at minimal expense and keeps pace with advancing software and technology.

Here's the first advantage for PC that I've seen, given that a weather hardened touchscreen PC display raises the cost of a competitive PC solution including autopilot control, to about the same as a dedicated chartplotter. I only use a chartplotter, but got to admit being able to save some power in good daylight visibility conditions for long periods, would be real nice! I know my 12" B&G stays warm all the time! Chartplotter designs need to add a hard switched way to turn off/on the display.

[ChrisJHC]

One other factor in favour of the PC is what do you do with the devices when you stop?

Chart plotter: turn it off and put the cover on.

PC: play music, watch videos, communicate with friends and family, keep your diary, keep your maintenance log, etc

[sailingdutchboy]

Much depends on you technical knowledge and expertise, willingness to build (and ability to dedicate time to design, experiment, and build your own), your expectations (of features, level of automation and equipment integration), and perhaps even how adventurous your sailing trips are expected to be (as you'll just be glancing at the chart once in a while if you are constantly leisurely cruising in the same familiar territory vs racing in heavy weather in a new location).


Also (modern) MFD / Chartplotters are essentially computers.
I have been able to expand my B&G Zeus with a remote and TV / monitor as a second screen (used for indoors).

Generally MFD / Chartplotters are rugged (vibration, rust and water resistant) and have some of the desirable interfaces (like NMEA) built-in.
When shopping for a ruggedized computer with bright (touch) screen and (NMEA) interface (and possibly purchased software), one has more selection, but it is usually not cheap either (and the integration of radar, autopilot, wind, sonar and other equipment may be more difficult and harder to get vendor support for).

Personally I think for outside, a MFD / Chartplotter is nicer (more friendly user interface with buttons), but for indoors, a PC can do very well (especially for planning routes and monitoring weather forecasts).

Why not use both (for redundancy and ease).

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

One other factor in favour of the PC is what do you do with the devices when you stop?

Chart plotter: turn it off and put the cover on.

PC: play music, watch videos, communicate with friends and family, keep your diary, keep your maintenance log, etc

Of course, a PC or Mac, at minimum a smartphone, is a requirement of daily living today whether at home or on the boat. So if budget does not allow a large chartplotter, then using the same laptop on the boat that you use at home makes all kinds of sense, knowing its limitations.

[nortonscove]

I'm still using my $700 plotter from ten years ago and it has proven to be great. It's living in my cockpit in the elements for six months of the year. Waterproof and easy to read in sunlight. I'm not sure I know of any tablet that has proven so reliable without much thought given to keeping it alive. I was the travelift operator for nearly 25 years and the single most common issues at the beginning of the fishing season was the failure of electronic devices. This invariably was due to some salesman that has never been out of sight of land selling a professional a rinky dink living room product best left to the kids to watch YouTube.

[Nightdiver]

Im in the middle of replacing all the electronics on a 16 year old Beneteau.
I decided on a Raymarine MFP, new radar, autopilot, AIS, Sonar, VHF, 9" display at the helm, 12" at the chart table. Everything is supposed to talk to each other seamlessly. We'll see how that goes.
I plan on a pad or laptop running navionics as a backup and paper charts as an "oh **** nothing else works" solution.
Decided I didnt want the pad or laptop as a primary for two reasons.
There are always problems getting different pieces of equipment to talk to each other. Especially things like AIS and Radar.
Second was the failure rate of non-marine equip. I've had two laptops die on me, and that wasnt even in a marine environment. One was a hard drive that just died when i was on dive trip in the Caymans. The other was a solid state that the hinge and wire to the screen broke off inside the unit. I suppose it still worked but with out a screen it didnt work very well.
I suppose if you build our own to withstand a worse than marine environment (although I'm not sure what that environment would be) I might feel more confident.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

All good considerations and I am at fault for not saying the PC will not be off the shelf. I build my own to meet my specs. I've built them to meet much harsher industrial environments than you would ever see on the water. The monitor(s) would also meet my specs. for harsh a environment, as in you could submerse them and they keep on working.


Thanks for your input!

For reasons which probably do not pertain to you, we cannot place a chartplotter near the helm. For that matter, we are rarely near the helm ourselves. (We use a windvane while sailing or an autopilot and we stand watch from under the dodger.)

We do all of our navigation at the nav station below decks (route planning, weather monitoring, ais target monitoring, course over ground relative to the route set, etc, etc).

For this we use standard, off the shelf, PC's running windows and OpenCPN. We collect or make charts prior to a passage to a new area.

Currently we have a Dell 15" Inspiron Laptop which is 9 years old. It works fine. We have had no trouble with corrosion or connections (there are 5 USB/Serial inputs to this PC) it runs off of a hardwired inverter which powers the ship's AC outlets. We use this PCV for all of our computing including the navigation (browsing, document prep, photo editing, etc). It is powered-on vitually 100% of the time.

We have two other PC's fully duplicating the Dell and can hot swap one in about 30 seconds.

We have a large LCD screen connected to the PC which we use when we have excess power (such as at a dock).

The only drawback we see is that someone has to go below to monitor the chart, (but there are two of us). It is visible from on deck looking down the companionway but for a close look you need to come below.

This has been our approach for 35 years. We are on our 5th primary PC, usually they have been upgraded to get better performance.

In our opinion a "bullet proof" custom made PC is not required.

[Tupaia]

One of the major advantages of a PC system is the availability of chart sources that is of particular interest to those boats travelling far and wide.
Chart "plotters" are more restrictive in the areas available and more expensive if travelling through multiple areas.