Are You A Video Game Navigator?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not just chartplotters. Exactly the same is true of superimposing your GPS position on a paper chart....

The Volvo ocean racer that hit a reef in the middle of the Indian Ocean at 20 knots - chartplotter showed empty ocean at the scale they were using - clear, uninterrupted ocean. I'll wager a dime to a dollar that any paper chart of the Indian Ocean will show the reef, and any modern paper chart will show it in glorious technicolour - dark blue or similar.

Discussing destinations a few months back, a veteran of many Pacific crossings agreed the Minerva Reef is a spectacular and safe place to visit. Then he switched on his chartplotter, panned to the correct area and asked me to show him where it is. At any scale that includes recognisable land features, the plotter shows nothing but empty ocean. Only if you know where to look can you zoom in and find the reefs. Paper doesn't make this mistake. Chartplotters should come with a health hazard warning - this gadget may kill you. Folks that rely on them should be keel-hauled.

And now we've just gone and bought one (sounder needed replacing, 4" plotter was no more expensive). Darn, we'll live to regret it for sure!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Folks that rely on them exclusively without proper prior planning should be keel-hauled.

There, fixed it for ya!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Discussing destinations a few months back, a veteran of many Pacific crossings agreed the Minerva Reef is a spectacular and safe place to visit. Then he switched on his chartplotter, panned to the correct area and asked me to show him where it is. At any scale that includes recognisable land features, the plotter shows nothing but empty ocean. Only if you know where to look can you zoom in and find the reefs.

Piss poor chartplotter?

Here's just Navionics on a simple smartphone! Clearly shows Minerva reefs and Tonga (that's a pretty recognisable land feature)

I haven't bothered to download the maps for the rest of the areas in between but if I was planning to sail there in the near future I would.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by StuM

Piss poor chartplotter?

Don't know much about them but thought the charts are likely the same for most of them. Maybe try zooming out to take in Fiji, Tonga, North Cape NZ and see if anything shows up - this guy had a blank ocean, no depth contours, and clearly the Volvo ocean race guys that slam-dunked had similar problem. Maybe some electronic charts are piss-poor?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Maybe try zooming out to take in Fiji, Tonga, North Cape NZ and see if anything shows up - this guy had a blank ocean, no depth contours, and clearly the Volvo ocean race guys that slam-dunked had similar problem.

Yep, the "similar problem" is improper use of the charts for planning purposes.

Obviously zoomed out to that extent, a great deal of data is not shown - including smaller reefs and islands. Anyone who doesn't zoom in on their planned route is making the same error as someone who relies solely on AUS 480x 1:3 500 000 charts to sail from Auckland to Cairns.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by StuM

Yep, the "similar problem" is improper use of the charts for planning purposes.

The big difference is that even the smallest scale paper chart shows the Minerva Reefs, highlighted in blue so that a blind man can't miss them when route planning on the paper version. Admittedly a very small part of a very large problem. These and other modern wizardry are teaching us that we can so easily rely on high tech, instead of ability. We shouldn't become reliant on them - keelhauling is too good..

[NevisDog]

Anyway maybe it's worth recounting the most recent news headlines as a warning to others, photos of another NZ yacht perched atop a Pacific reef last week. I listened to the interview:
1. he was sailing at night, radar didn't show the reef as it was high water (but photos show a darned great island, just behind the reef he hit):
2. chartplotter/GPS didn't help he says because the chart is five miles in error in that location.

Okay you could argue paper or plotter chart has same 5 mile error but:
1. would anyone be stupid enough to sail at night, in reef-infested waters, using paper charts (that list when the survey was done, obviously done by Captain Cook in the 1800's in this case) or was it the seduction of the wide-screen plotter that gave him the false confidence to continue instead of heaving to?
2. would anyone be stupid enough to navigate that area at night without radar-plus-chartplotter doing all the navigating/watchkeeping for them, and leading them into trouble?

I thought with all the new wizardry it would be near impossible to hit a reef (in reasonably calm weather anyway) nowadays. In fact it seems the contrary is true - these things are hypnotic! Seductive? Heave to for crissake!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

Yep, the "similar problem" is improper use of the charts for planning purposes.

Obviously zoomed out to that extent, a great deal of data is not shown - including smaller reefs and islands. Anyone who doesn't zoom in on their planned route is making the same error as someone who relies solely on AUS 480x 1:3 500 000 charts to sail from Auckland to Cairns.

There's a thread on it here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...em-140632.html

Problem is inherent to vector charts.

It is a really basic and heinous navigational error, to rely on zoomed out vector charts for planning.

Vector charts CAN be used for planning, but it is really tedious. But failing to zoom in and and fly through your route is major navigational malpractice.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There's a thread on it here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...em-140632.html

Wow! I see it's all been well and truly discussed and dissected before - great thread, thanks.

[River Cruiser]

I'am on the upper Mississippi River, I run 2 plotters. The 12" cp590 is zoomed way out so I have a view of several miles in any direction, really helpful with the AIS to see location of tows especially at locks. I also use a 7" cp300 zoomed very close to show all the details near my position. This shows the sailing line, wing dams & chevrons so I can pick a safe place to anchor out of the channel.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Wow! I see it's all been well and truly discussed and dissected before - great thread, thanks.

As has just about any other topic you can think of.

[Toaster]

Sometimes you have no choice, the video game is upon you.

We were motoring eastward in the Strait of Juan de Fuca between Washington State and Canada, at night hoping to catch the tides. Crew was already tired having just crossed from Barkley Sound, but we persevered expecting a simple motor sail just south of the traffic lanes. Around midnight the fog settled in, so we had our chartplotter (aka Open CPN), Radar, Depth, and lastly the compass in the binnacle. As the darkness closed in, and visibility dropped to 1/4 mile, we entered the video game zone. There was nothing to see except glowing screens and the chop in our nav lights.

Fortunately, we had VTS - Vessel Traffic Service. We hailed them as we approach Pt Angeles and let them know our plan. They responded with a detailed list of vessels to watch for and said they would be keeping us informed of traffic. Indeed they did, every hour we received hails from VTS when they would give us updates on traffic. They also warned traffic (container ships) about our location and route. We heard one container ship contact VTS worried about a strange blip on their radar - VTS informed them it was our sailboat.

Everything seemed great, until we approached Dungeness Spit. A tug boat Shannon, was headed westbound towards us, between our route and the shore to the south. The Traffic lane gets very close to the buoy at the spit, and we were suddenly being squeezed between the tug boat, it's load, and a fast eastbound container ship in the traffic lane. Shannon hailed us, based on our VTS contact, and we arranged how we'd pass - green to green. We then hailed the container ship (we knew it's name thanks to VTS) and agreed they would pass us one half mile to the north.

Once past the Shannon, approaching the buoy, the sheit hit the fan. Using the video game chart plotter, we aimed to skirt just past it, just a hundred yards or so. The container ship continued to squeeze us, coming much closer than agreed, probably less then 300 yards (as we could see on the video game radar). To our amazement, the lights of the buoy appeared out of nowhere on our starboard, seeming far from the expected GPS location (of course, buoys on cables shift position). And moments after we passed it, the bow wake from the container ship hit.

I have no idea of the height of the waves, but I only know that the boat pitched more violently than I have ever felt, it was all I could do to hang onto the wheel to avoid falling over. In this moment, I looked at the video game radar, and because everything was so close, it was useless. I looked at the video game chart plotter, and it was literally spinning, things were happening so fast and so randomly, it could not keep up. It was useless. So I looked at the compass, and it stayed true - pointing reliably north.

I knew the only safe option was to head north, away from the spit, away from the Shannon, and into the traffic lane (that I knew was now empty, thanks to VTS). And the only instrument that I could trust to tell me where to steer was the compass in the binnacle.

[Sandero]

The world is moving to digital information... displayed on screens. In many ways this is superior to paper based information because it has to potential to be current and updated. But it also can be frozen in time like print when the media is digital memory. You need connectivity over the www to keep updates current and this could be almost seemless and will be one of these days.

I almost never look at my chartplotter below decks. I thought "how cool" the chart table and all the instruments were... but as I single hand or shorthand with the wifey.... I "sail" and navigate from the cockpit.

Toward that end I have a "portable" B&G Zeus which is standalone placed under the port side of the dodger where I usually sit and access the AP and engine controls... and have excellent visibility from.

My repeaters (from the below decks plotter) will display GPS speed, course, and things like heading to a selected waypoint/mark and time to go... an interest of the wifey...."when are we getting there????".

My navigation is 95% eyeball using the plotter and the ship's heading line to determine the course I want to set. Then it's a matter of keeping watch and avoiding traffic and hazards. I can change course as needed.

At times I use the smart phone's apps such as navionics or sailflow... tides and so forth in a casual way... open the app.... check something... and then back to watch keeping and sail trim.

In the 90s I would go below and record my progress on a paper chart, note depths, hazards, buoys and so forth. Now I do the same on screens.

I am also sailing 95% in familiar waters and so it's easier and less stressful...

I don't bother with advance "route planning"... makes no sense. I do it on the fly one waypoint at a time... pick a "go to" location and that's it. I don't spend and waste time with libraries and names and so forth for waypoints... ridiculous and a marketing feature for plotter mfgs.... who needs a thousand waypoints? hahahahaha

Radar and AIS are fabulous and require screens. Screens are here to stay and they integrate and consolidate useful data. I am cool with them.

[valhalla360]

I suspect this is just the flavor of the month type article to get the old salts something to stew over.

You can't idiot proof something because idiots are too ingenious at being idiots. All these examples thrown out, can be solved with even the slightest effort at seamanship. It's a poor craftsman who blames the tools for the poor quality of his work.

Do you really think the guy cruising at 30kts thru crowded waters and goes below to make a sandwich will suddenly be capt. nelson by just taking away his chart plotter?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by rognvald

...sailors' penchant for electronic navigation... has become an increasing problem on the water according to Boat US insurance claims...

The point of this thread is surely the increased danger, losses, claims generated by improper reliance on this technology. Interesting to read how it can be used by experienced navigators to go where no man has gone before - a fascinating read for us lesser mortals who would be forced to heave-to and await daylight/fog lifting - but it's the insurance claims evidence stacking up that indicates a problem here, a problem (perhaps) of less competent navigators who rely totally on this wizardry?

And one more scary moment: a short in one of my plug-in chargers just brought my house batteries down to 7 volts! From scanning other threads on CF, it may take weeks for those batteries to climb back to where they can again power any sensitive electronics. Meantime my paper charts will continue functioning as normal.