Are paper charts as a backup still necessary?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by billknny

While it DOES answer my question (Thank you!), it is also no help (to me!), because none of those areas are my cruising grounds.

Oh well...

Other than being a total PITA (to me!) to use, the difficulty in getting up to date chart data for the rest of the world is what keeps me away from using OpenCPN.

Not just electronic, getting any up to date chart data is impossible for a lot of the world, it doesn't exist. As an addition to whatever scant charts you can find, opencpn does a very good job and downloading & displaying google (& other) satellite imagery. Extremely useful.

[seadago]

Originally Posted by billknny

While it DOES answer my question (Thank you!), it is also no help (to me!), because none of those areas are my cruising grounds.

Oh well...

Other than being a total PITA (to me!) to use, the difficulty in getting up to date chart data for the rest of the world is what keeps me away from using OpenCPN.

Bill... If it were that easy, there would be no challenge. Personally, for a piece of sw that costs you absolutely zilch, i think OCPN does an admirable job. Yes, availability of charts can be a problem in some parts of the world. Sometimes (more often that you think), up to date charts of the right scale and detail for your purposes just do not exist. Worst case scenario, you can have paper charts scanned and mounted on OCPN for that hidden anchorage you absolutely got to get to. A full world-wide set of Admiralty electronic charts will set you back GBP 6000. Licenced for one year only, and you have to use their viewer! And the info on those may still date to the 18th century. My view is: mix and match technologies, and when lacking charts, consult the locals and plan your passage carefully. Like in scuba diving... Plan your sail and sail your plan...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by seadago

Bill... If it were that easy, there would be no challenge. Personally, for a piece of sw that costs you absolutely zilch, i think OCPN does an admirable job. Yes, availability of charts can be a problem in some parts of the world. Sometimes (more often that you think), up to date charts of the right scale and detail for your purposes just do not exist. Worst case scenario, you can have paper charts scanned and mounted on OCPN for that hidden anchorage you absolutely got to get to. A full world-wide set of Admiralty electronic charts will set you back GBP 6000. Licenced for one year only, and you have to use their viewer! And the info on those may still date to the 18th century. My view is: mix and match technologies, and when lacking charts, consult the locals and plan your passage carefully. Like in scuba diving... Plan your sail and sail your plan...

Fugawi has just about the whole world for O.

https://www.fugawi.com/store?device_model_id=25

[Wernito]

Originally Posted by StevieMac

I am setting off on a big cruise with the family in the next few years and space will be tight. I've been holding on to a box full of paper charts - many of the Caribbean, Columbia and Venezuela which I will be using in the first years, but many others of the South Pacific, Australia and the Med- which I wont be getting to unless things go really well.
Any salty, sage advice out there on idea of going completely electronic with several layers of back-ups?

Hey Stevie
If you love life, DON´T even think of passing nearby Venezuela. Personally I would stay 50 miles above Los Roques to move West (or East) and with or wthout charts!

Check blogs and forums about navigting to Venezuela. I was born in Venezuela and lived (and sailed) there until 2000

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In addition to the software, you need ECDIS compliant hardware, and compliant cartography, in order to run your 10,000 ton tanker. You can read about the standards here: http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Safety...cretariat).pdf


I don't know if anyone actually uses O on a tanker, but I do know one 5,000 tonne expedition vessel which runs primarily on OpenCPN.



It is a fabulously powerful system. OpenCPN does require some skill to use properly, however -- It is not an Apple product.

OpenCPN may utilise symbology and other ECDIS approved features in it's software but it is not Type Approved for use in ECDIS, it has no certification stating such.

Without the certification (which needs to be carried on board the vessel) stating that the software meets all the requirements of the performance standards then it cannot be used in an OFFICIAL ECDIS system, no classification society would recognise it.

Have a look on any of the web sites of approved/certified suppliers of software for ECDIS systems and you will find the correct certification, you wont find any on the OpenCPN site, just claims of using compliant features.

Having said the above, thats not to say OpenCPN is not a good tool (personally never used it) it's just that it is NOT approved for use in official ECDIS systems...

[Canibul]

Taking our boat from Jax to Providenciales, we were hit by lightning near Chub Cay. Took out every single piece of 12v equipment on board. Including both laptops and the wired in GPS. Had a set of Explorer Bahamas charts on board, and an old Garmin handheld GPS with the left half of the monochrome display black. Navigated the rest of the trip ( 500 miles) using the last four digits of what I could read on the old handheld, and the Explorer Charts.

[pyeguy]

One lightning strike could disable your electronics, if your ability to charges your devices goes down then you'll be happy to have those paper charts.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by pyeguy

One lightning strike could disable your electronics, if your ability to charges your devices goes down then you'll be happy to have those paper charts.

Needless worry. It won’t disable an ipad or iphone that’s not plugged in, and batteries can be isolated and used to charge via a 12v car-type converter. Then you also have solar.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Needless worry. It won’t disable an ipad or iphone that’s not plugged in, and batteries can be isolated and used to charge via a 12v car-type converter. Then you also have solar.

Hmmmm! I don't think that lightning is so predictable. I know of lots of odd things that have happened when it hits including all my instruments going out for about a day when a nearby boat was hit. Thankfully, they revived themselves to go on living long happy lives.


But, that's not the real reason to have paper charts. They are not just for backup, but for big picture alternatives to the layering of vector charts and the size of raster images both used on chartplotters. If this rings no bells, study up a bit, and include what happened to Vestas. There have been several other very avoidable accidents that happened when only chartplotters have been used.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by contrail

Hmmmm! I don't think that lightning is so predictable. I know of lots of odd things that have happened when it hits including all my instruments going out for about a day when a nearby boat was hit. Thankfully, they revived themselves to go on living long happy lives.


But, that's not the real reason to have paper charts. They are not just for backup, but for big picture alternatives to the layering of vector charts and the size of raster images both used on chartplotters. If this rings no bells, study up a bit, and include what happened to Vestas. There have been several other very avoidable accidents that happened when only chartplotters have been used.

‘Doing just fine without your advice over the past 45 years... no need to “study up.” Maybe you just need to get with the times.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by contrail

If this rings no bells, study up a bit, and include what happened to Vestas. There have been several other very avoidable accidents that happened when only chartplotters have been used.

Using a chartplotter incorrectly isn't really a huge argument in favor of paper charts. Grab the wrong scale (paper) chart, same thing happens all over again...

-Chris

[conachair]

Originally Posted by contrail

If this rings no bells, study up a bit, and include what happened to Vestas. There have been several other very avoidable accidents that happened when only chartplotters have been used.

All Vestas et al needed to do was read the manual, all avoidable with just a little time learning how the display works. Not difficult.

Quite often cruisers will print out a few harbour charts etc so with cruising guides & a few small scale charts there's enough paper to get from A to B safely if all the electronics goes down.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Needless worry. It won’t disable an ipad or iphone that’s not plugged in, and batteries can be isolated and used to charge via a 12v car-type converter. Then you also have solar.

And a phone lasts for weeks if only used to check position now and then.

[mjscottinnc]

I'm the most tech guy you will ever find. 2 IPads and an Android Tablet for navigation, 2 backup GPSs, AIS, WiFi Radar, 2 smart phones, Wifi thought out the boat, VHF, and SSB. USB charge stations in the cockpit and through out the cabin, 630 Watts of solar, 400 watt wind generator, 55 amps alternator on the diesel, 400 A/h of batteries in two banks.

I still carry a sextant and paper charts.

I place absolute trust in absolutely nothing.

With that said, I've never had an electronics or navigation failure onboard. But you can bet if I decided to leave the paper charts behind, I'd be hit by lightning or some other freakish electrical event which rendered tech useless. Murphy's looking for an opportunity everyday.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

I'm the most tech guy you will ever find. 2 IPads and an Android Tablet for navigation, 2 backup GPSs, AIS, WiFi Radar, 2 smart phones, Wifi thought out the boat, VHF, and SSB. USB charge stations in the cockpit and through out the cabin, 630 Watts of solar, 400 watt wind generator, 55 amps alternator on the diesel, 400 A/h of batteries in two banks.

I still carry a sextant and paper charts.

I place absolute trust in absolutely nothing.

With that said, I've never had an electronics or navigation failure onboard. But you can bet if I decided to leave the paper charts behind, I'd be hit by lightning or some other freakish electrical event which rendered tech useless. Murphy's looking for an opportunity everyday.

I have you beat by a chartplotter, 400ah of batteries and two iphones and I have a complete set of paper charts onboard that now only get used for my wife to label favorite anchorages.

Over the past eight years, I’ve always known where I was within 30ft on this planet using only one of our three ipads, which have backup battery packs. You can now rest easy leaving the paper behind.