Are paper charts as a backup still necessary?

[Lodbrog1]

Verification is a wonderful thing....When all else fails, and they do, regardless of redundancy I will not leave home with out them.

[billknny]

The EMP pulse from a nearby lightening strike can most certainly kill all your electronics, and all your charging systems. It doesn't even have to hit YOUR boat. Close enough counts in horseshoes and lightening strikes.

Yes, a faraday cage, and all that might help.

But my paper charts, mechanical watch, and sextant WILL survive.

People who think lightening is not a risk or one to be dismissed as a vanishingly small likelihood haven't spent much time on the East Coast of Florida, or Panama, or Costa Rica, among other places.

This is NOT a concern of someone who is "cruising" for a weekend away from a home base. But for people crossing oceans in the tropics, and especially those spending a lot of time in remote tropical locations, the risk is most certainly real. Ignoring it is just burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best.

[StevieMac]

Thank you all for such great advice.
What makes the most sense to me is to keep all the pilot and large scale charts- and even some detailed ones of places I'm sure we're going.
And then build up several layers of redundancy on the electronics.
Faraday bags are so cheap that looks like a must also.

[StevieMac]

Some others gems of advice I was unaware of:
Wifi I-pads have no GPS - good to know.
and
Led lights will be gone after lightning strike- so are you all keeping some incandescent nav light options ?

[TideTime]

In a single word: Absolutely!

[StevieMac]

Noelex77,
I just went back and read the thread you started in 2012. Very interesting. I appreciate the point you made here and wanted to share it again.

Originally Posted by noelex 77

My proposal is that with enough redundancy ( which I outlined in earlier posts) the chance of failure of the electronic charts is very slim. Importantly I believe the risk of this failure is now so low it is reasonable to cruise without a paper chart backup.
Some, I think, are confusing failure of the GPS system. This is largely irrelevant as navigation with both paper and electronic charts are (almost) equally effected. Given the low probability of gps failure ( with suitable backups) it seems a very minor difference even if you feel paper charts would be significantly easier to use if a failure of the GPS system occurred.

Just curious, has your approach changed much since you started that thread 6 years ago? What kind of electronic set up do you have now?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by StevieMac

Some others gems of advice I was unaware of:
Wifi I-pads have no GPS - good to know.
and
Led lights will be gone after lightning strike- so are you all keeping some incandescent nav light options ?

And your magnetic compass is likely to be wildly off after lightning strike - paper charts or not.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by LadyStardust

I should check out the Faraday bags, but of all the people I have met who have lost equipment through lightning strikes, and that's about ten, it always happened when they were in a marina or at anchor, and generally when the strike happens, it has taken out most of the electronics, depth/speed/log instruments, fridge, autopilot etc.
I wonder how many people have lost their nav gear when actually on passage. The risks are probably quite small.

The reason that almost all people lose their electronics to lightening at the dock is most boats spend ALL of their time at the dock! Even when we do 15,000 miles in a year we spend 1 day sailing for every 2 or 3 at anchor or dock.

You're forgetting that very few boats have the opportunity to get hit by lightening on passage, because so very few boats actually DO real passages.

The risks to a boat on passage are a LITTLE lower because the number of lightening strikes in the middle of the ocean is a bit smaller than in a lot of land locations, but it is not a LOT lower at a given latitude. And let's not forget, getting hit while you are at anchor in the rather remote San Blas Islands off Panama is at least as bad as getting hit in the middle of the Pacific. The only saving grace might be having another boat near by you can buy some paper charts from....

[quandary]

I think a few large scale charts fall in the same category as having a liferaft and flares. You'll probably never need them but when you do they can be lifesaving. The thought of being very uncertain of your position, especially in sight of land, is frightening. Its all very well having a solar charger but bad weather could neutralise that for a few days?.

[daletournier]

IMHO, no you don't need paper charts. I carry large scale charts purely based on irrational fear, a hangover of a time gone by.

We must have 10+ chartplotters onboard if you take into account all tablets, phones, computers and chartplotters.

When we have lightening I put several devices in the microwave.

Could I lose every device and every way I have to charge devices? sure it's possible but the chances are quite small. From what I see few are using paper charts out here, more are dumping them every year.

The times are changing.

[MartinR]

There are no requirements for carrying paper charts for commercial vessels anymore. That should say enough. Actually, commercial vessels have 2 ECDIS stations/chart plotters. I have, like most here, at least 4 different systems on board which can be used for navigation. And should all of them fail, North is north, east is east, west is west. When you reach land Just go with Captain Ron, stop somewhere and ask for directions.

Large scale charts are good to have, though, makes planning easier.

[gmakhs]

Paper charts are nice and funny to use but not for crowded cruising areas like.caribbean or Bahamas for.those areas I would definitely go electronic , for.more remote places I would like to have the paper charts as well .

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Paper charts are nice and funny to use but not for crowded cruising areas like.caribbean or Bahamas for.those areas I would definitely go electronic , for.more remote places I would like to have the paper charts as well .

IMHO this is exactly where more modern tools shine. In the remote places of the world the paper charts have not seen an update in 100 years or more. Some of the charts of remote south Pacific islands were last updated in the 1800's. But you can download an aerial/satellite photo from your favorite provider, overlay it on an electronic chart, or look at it in OvitalMap or similar and get up-to-date data that is simply not available in any "official" chart product - paper or electronic.

[Kenomac]

Believe me, when I was winding my way through three weeks of thick fog up in Maine last July, I wasn’t plotting a course using a compass and paper chart. I was staring down at a modern chartplotter with radar overlay while my wife and friend were looking out.

If the chartplotter had failed, I would’ve quickly picked up and used one of the eleven other chartplotting devices onboard. Paper would’ve been useless.

[Dr. Sea]

Originally Posted by CarlF

My up-to-date charts are all electronic on two chartplotters, one laptop, four Ipads (most bought on Ebay for little money - don't get a wifi one or you won't have GPS)

Just to clarify, Carl meant to say that an iPad with Wi-Fi ONLY won’t have GPS. It has to have Wi-Fi AND cellular capability to have true Wi-Fi. It doesn’t use either of these for GPS but only these models have true GPS built in.

In addition to two iPad Airs with Navionics that I use onboard, I keep an older iPad in a metal ammo box to protect it from possible lightning strikes along with a handheld GPS and a handheld VHF radio. The metal box serves as a Faraday cage. I keep this box hidden in case of intruders. Some have been known to board and rob a boat and destroy communication and navigation equipment before fleeing. That’s probably less likely than a lightning strike. I have to remember to charge them periodically.