Are paper charts as a backup still necessary?

[River Rat]

Take chance! Columbus did!

With all the “hacks” going on today I’ll carry some paper.

[wesevans]

Absolutely and would be a good idea to have and know how to use a sextant.

[saucur]

I spent a small fortune on paper charts because everyone said you must have, I sailed from Florida to Grenada and back, never once did I get a paper chart out, Navionics on our iPad was the best charting tool, I would not buy paper charts again, a good chartplotter on the boat, an iPad maybe Navionics on you phone as another back up

[GrahamO]

Lightening strike?
Rollover?
Major power system failure?

All unlikely but do happen.

We have the same level of electronic redundancy but I still keep a set of passage planning charts, a lifeboat sextant and almanac all in a waterproof container. I don't open it except for practice. I'm fine with planning on a laptop or tablet but I do want a 'find the sticking up bits' (which are VERY small in the Pacific) capability in the event of a total loss of electronics. I am not worried about the detailed coastal charts. look for other boats, use (waterproof) VHF for advice and mark1 eyeball as last resort.

It cost me about $120 for the passage planning charts for the Pacific - no big deal in the overall scheme of things.

Graham

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We still have an almost complete set of paper charts in order to see the overall picture. That being said... no, I don’t believe you absolutely need them any longer with enough redundancy built into your system. When we were setting off across the Atlantic, the jerk who bailed out on us was so overly concerned about charts, that I actually went out and purchased a paper shipping chart of the Atlantic Ocean just to shut him up. Basically, it’s just a big chart of open water with an overlayed grid pattern.

It was first pointed out to him by myself and another crew Tom that we already had twelve times redundancy in case of a failure.

1. Four iphones
2. Raymarine hybrid touch with Navionics platinum charts
3. Four ipads with two charting apps
4. Garmin handheld
5. Two pcs

It’s ridiculous! It was pointed out to him, that short of a major attack by North Korea... everything would be fine, and even then... we could simply head east. We’d even discussed how to isolate batteries into separate banks.

Yes, you’re now fine without paper.

[jpmesa]

Like what everyone else has said keep the charts. If you are worried about storage try using PVC tubes attached to the ceiling, about 3"+ x 3' . I had several on our boat 3 in the quarter berth ( by nav station) and a couple in the V-berth along the far edges of the ceiling out of the way. For charts not being used. Enjoy your trip. It will be the best thing you have ever done for you & your family.

[JesperMilling]

The only thing I can imagine that would take out all electronics once and for all, would be a lightning and they do happen. As a safety precaution, it migth be a good idea to carry one electronic navigation aid (maybe just a cell phone) in a strong metal box, hoping a lightning would wrap around the box and not into the box. Maybe inside the box the devise should be placed in an electrically insulated box as well. Just thinking.

[Riggerman]

To cover all the places I have sailed to in My lifetime, I would need a cargo ship just to store them charts, I also would need to be a millionaire in order to afford them. Yes I still have a few, but to tell you the truth I rarely take them out. Navionic, Open CPN, chart plotter and portable GPS that can old My charts on a sand-disk. Some old timer that still uses paper only, probably have never been around the world twice as I have, and in some countries it is impossible to get accurate charts because what is available is at least 40 to 50 years old.

[sailorladd]

These are all I ever used while cruising around the world. It is very comforting to know you have all these paper charts, I could never totally trust electronics out at sea as regards to handheld or fixed navigational aids, besides, Murphy's law states that, "if you leave these at home you WILL need them!!" lol....they are also a form of currency when you are in remote places that do not have satellite nav equipment...

[Chris Whitney]

Short answer is YES. Next shorter is S/V Vesta 2015. If you don't follow the Volvo ocean race that boat ripped off the back of the boat on a charted reef at 20+ knots in the dark of the night, because they had zoomed in to close on their chart plotter and didn't see the warnings. Not that we all don't do the same thing but more and more I see cruisers talking about how navionics is more or less accurate in different places. But rarely do we hear the paper chart was wrong. On my own chart plotter I am often shown on shore at the new smyrna inlet. Which could not be less accurate if they tried. SO my opinion is look for as many bits of information as possible. new, old, electronic, paper as well as the many chart books with cool information about what to do ashore as well as inlet guidance.

[boat driver]

Interesting conflict between a tried and true vs tried and new.

On the view of paper charts- how do you obtain your position? if sextant- then lightning proof.


My suggestion- redundancy is paramount and KISS (keep it simple stupid)
I would suggest for the latest and greatest with corrections-utilize an electronic charting method that can be updated via the internet.
have two or three methods (PC, Tablet, plotter) of delivery.
Isolate one system and package it in plastic (waterproof ziplock bag) and be sure it is self sufficient. (battery, gps, and charts stored) This is the emergency system. (personally I have the ipad inside a life proof box (rubber) with a spare cord/charger that can be hot wired tot he batteries). Every month I will (discipline) remove and charge for twenty four hours,
Thereafter I hold paper one world chart, an ocean chart, (with wind diagrams, notes on it) and if needed a arrival chart for a complicated area.
Twice I called a ship passing and verified my position and requested arrival suggestions to the port of call (which was not on my planning)

[ajchan]

We have covered a few miles in our cruising and we rely almost 100% on electronic charts. That said we usually have either a chart book or a large scale planning chart handy while on passage.

If we are on a multi-day passage or traveling at night one of our habits is to mark our position on the paper chart periodically. Normally this happens every hour or two but we are not super precise on timing as there are only two of us aboard and usually only one person on watch.

For coastal hops between anchorages or Marinas the paper almost never comes out unless we want to consult notes that were written on a previous passage.

At the end of the day it is a matter of balancing probabilities with practicality. The right solution is different for every crew but for us we are perfectly comfortable with electronics but feel it prudent to keep some basic paper charts around.

[seadago]

Originally Posted by GrahamO

Lightening strike?
Rollover?
Major power system failure?

All unlikely but do happen.

We have the same level of electronic redundancy but I still keep a set of passage planning charts, a lifeboat sextant and almanac all in a waterproof container. I don't open it except for practice. I'm fine with planning on a laptop or tablet but I do want a 'find the sticking up bits' (which are VERY small in the Pacific) capability in the event of a total loss of electronics. I am not worried about the detailed coastal charts. look for other boats, use (waterproof) VHF for advice and mark1 eyeball as last resort.

It cost me about $120 for the passage planning charts for the Pacific - no big deal in the overall scheme of things.

Graham

I have had this debate ad nauseam, both with experienced sailors and novices like me alike. For some, it's an ideological matter. If you can't plot your position with a sextant and a chronometer to within 10 miles, then you are not worth your salt, on dry land or on the water. That's just about the size of it.

I don't have an ideological position on the topic. If anything, it' an entirely pragmatic one based on risk assessment. So, let's assess risk.

Lightening strike? Rollover? Major power system failure? Yes, they do happen. Question is, how to plan and enable adequate backup for those.

On a really bad lightening strike, my electronic navigation devices will be fried. Granted. So will my VHF radio. Possibly also my EPIRB. Anything with a circuit board in it, and lying close to where the strike arcs in the boat. The loss of comms and distress signalling capability would be far more worrying to me in those circumstances. Not to mention that there may be leaks through brass seacocks and hull fittings that went white hot as they conducted the discharge into the water.

So, if that happens on passage (as opposite to in a marina or anchorage), I will be busy bailing out by hand, whilst keeping a hand on the wheel, sailing with no lights, no means of communication other than semaphore, and no way to send a distress signal except with flares. All of that in a squall or a storm, as lightening does not tend to happen in good weather. Time now to take out the sextant and chronometer and plot an accurate position in a paper chart? If I could see the sky, that is? What do you think?

Rollover. Same thing. Chances are I'd be dismasted. So, apart from bailing (maybe my electric bilge pumps will work in this case), I'd be occupied in sorting the mess on deck, and once that's done, constructing a jury rig to get me somewhere, anywhere!

Other arguments I often heard: What happens if the GPS/Glonass/Galileo satellites all go off-line? What happens if you have to abandon ship and find yourself in a life raft? Oh well, then!

The above is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but the point is serious; i.e. paper charts, a sextant and a chronometer, cannot be backup solutions for lightening strikes, rollovers, or solar flares, precisely because they do not address the same risk, or level of risk.

So what is? IMHO, redundancy is a good thing. Against power supply failure? an independent power supply. A portable battery operated device. Hand-held GPS that work off AA batteries. An external spare (and fully charged!) power supply for a tablet/smart phone with it' own GPS antenna. Etc, etc. These solutions address the case where you can't use your main battery banks, for whatever reason. Against the effects of a lightening strike? Protect against static and magnetic fields. I would place my backup electronics and their independent power supplies in a waterproof box lined thickly with anti-static wrapping, and store as further away as possible from any metal likely to conduct a lightening strike. Among my cotton socks and fleeces in the forward cabin locker, for example.

I have not said a word AGAINST the merits of carrying paper charts, or knowing how to do astral navigation. I myself carry some of the former, and I am currently studying the latter. My issue here is the widespread and mistaken notion that one is an operational backup, plan B, or worse-case fall back for the other. It ain't, just as a horse and cart cannot be your backup when your car refuses to start in the morning.

[DockDoc]

There is a middle of the road option.

In this link, there is a youtube tutorial on viewing nautical charts on Google Earth. Yes I realize this requires a working computer.

You could use this function on google earth, download to a thumb drive maps you want, go to Kinkos or Staples and have them printed out.
I have even (foolishly) thought about buying a 36inch printer ($1500 on Amazon) and printing my own out.

Give it a whirl, I promise this isn't a Rick Roll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtD7rMLcAUI

I found this link when I was looking for paper charts. I just like looking at "the big picture" this then sets the background for the chart plotter. There is a good story by Fatty Goodlander about the Volvo race where a boat hit a reef using a chart plotter, and he pulled out his paper chart and it was marked on his chart plainly.

[wingssail]

1.

Originally Posted by StevieMac

Any salty, sage advice out there on idea of going completely electronic

Almost everyone these days, it seems, uses electronic and it does not even take deep pockets to have several backups.

But it is conceivable that you would lose all electronics. Unlikely but conceivable. Like Paul L says:

Originally Posted by Paul L

You should keep enough paper charts to safely make harbor... that means keeping an offshore chart that shows the large area. We then typically have some chartlets in guide books that would get us inside. S

2. Could I lose ALL of my electronics?

Yes there are plenty of scenarios. Despite Kenomac's silly allegation

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Needless worry. It won’t disable an ipad or iphone that’s not plugged in,

a strong EMP Pulse can take out even devices which are not plugged in, a roll over can soak everything (unfortunately even paper, but paper can dry out)

3.

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

If all of your electronic charts die how will you know your position?

Keep a paper log with your position, heading, and sea conditions, updated every change of watch. You'll have your last known position. Magnetic compass and estimates of speed will allow you to plot your progress on the ocean chart. Use a guide book for the country you are headed to, hopefully you bought that prior to setting out. Get to a harbor, buy some new electronics.

4. Are electronic charts safe?
Some more than others, (I have problems with the accuracy of Navionics and CM93 for some areas) but it is not the charts that are the problem, it's how they are used. Both Pegu Club

Originally Posted by salfarina

You may recall Kimberley and Jeff -Unfortunately, they grounded hard on an underwater dyke that extended 3 miles out from where they intended to anchor. This obstruction did not appear as such on their electronic chart plotter chart, but was clearly indicated on the paper chart.

and Vestas

Originally Posted by Chris Whitney

SVestas 2015. If you don't follow the Volvo ocean race that boat ripped off the back of the boat on a charted reef at 20+ knots in the dark of the night, because they had zoomed in to close on their chart plotter

failed to follow the most important rule of navigation, in my opinion, that of plotting your course ahead of time, check the whole route carefully, drawing it on what ever chart you are using, then following that course.

Vestas was not zoomed in too far. If they had been they would have seen detailed charts of the reef, I've seen the chart they were using. There were zoomed OUT too far and the reef disappeared.

5. Are charts available for everywhere in the world? Sometimes they are hard to find. BEFORE you set our it is best practice to get the best charts you can find (even if you have to make them yourself) and familiarize yourself with the routes you may take.

6. How about Celestial? It's OK, more for a hobby for most folks than an actual back-up unless you use it frequently. I have my grandfather's 1891 sextant (and his Alaska Pilot's license), AND his mud maps for most harbors in Alaska. These are traditional navigation practices which, if we use them, we are sharing with all the sailors who went before us.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by contrail

I am also hazarding a guess that the same "no charts" crowd usually plot courses and bearings in Magnetic, rather than True, whereas the reverse is true with more professional navigators who actually plot positions on charts.

I am a Navy Surface Warfare Officer, and so have a lot of bridge experience on large ships. I've also sailed a great many miles beginning in the mid-70's where the only way to sail was with paper charts, and the only way to get a fix was with a hand bearing compass. For a large ship, "True" is the order of the day there, and works fine. However, "True" is an absolute disaster on a sailboat. It provides no benefit and nothing but confusion. Everything on the boat reads magnetic -- your compass card on the binnacle, your hand held (or binocular held) bearing compass, your autopilot, everything. Why would you plot it in True, and then apply variation? Why would you take a bearing in magnetic, and then apply variation, to plot a LOB? There are two compass roses on the chart, just use the one that aligns with the systems on your vessel and skip the extra step.



You may be right that "professional navigators use True," but that is only because professional navigators are on vessels with gyro compasses -- and since a gyro reads in True, that's what they use. But skilled recreational sailors use what they have -- which is magnetic.