Ancient navigation

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

what you dont hear in these legends and hybperbole is all the ploly's that dissapeared. Quite a few did. Also the Polys didn't travel all over the place. They had specific local trading routes and knowledge. More myth.

It is not myth. Lewis' book was not simply a cruiser spinning on nothing like so much that is going on in this thread, but rather it was a comprehensive and coordinated scientific project to detail and practicallys assess the claims, skills and techniques of actual Polynesian navigators in practise. He undertook a series of voyages using only these traditional means, directed by the best and last remaining purely traditional navigators in the Pacific region, and logged them alongside Western astronavigation techniques.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by minaret

Bet Boatie knows how to use a Kamal.

Kamals are one of the simplest tools possible, and can be made in a few minutes from basic materials… for latitude sailing only… so I hope so!

Actually everyone has the most basic form of Kamals on board… in the form of their hands, and their memory. Kamals simply enable one to record the latitude position of an object by virtue of the string or leather cord. They still use personal biometrics for latitude sailing.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by atoll

i once had the privilidge of meeting dr david lewis in aitutaki , cook islands where we shared the tiny anchorage for a week,facinating guy.

we made him the guest of honour at my 30 th birthday party!

Now THAT is something! What a birthday party! Lucky chap!

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

There are books on Emergency and Instrumentless navigation which go into the practical manner of navigating such as this. I personally think everyone should learn how to navigate this way FIRST -- not star paths per say but basic celestial navigation w/o instruments etc. You understand the fundamentals of how it all works.

I certainly agree with this. I wonder how many modern sailors, even long distance voyagers, are familiar with the sun and stars or how to use them? How many would understand how to find latitude by declination? How many could find their latitude with their hands, to an accuracy of a couple of degrees?

I know that the majority of cruisers I meet, even in remote places, now rely solely on GPS. Many do not even carry a sextant, much less trouble themselves to learn the major stars, and their relationships…

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Kamals are one of the simplest tools possible, and can be made in a few minutes from basic materials… for latitude sailing only… so I hope so!

Actually everyone has the most basic form of Kamals on board… in the form of their hands, and their memory. Kamals simply enable one to record the latitude position of an object by virtue of the string or leather cord. They still use personal biometrics for latitude sailing.

Just my roundabout way of implying that the Polynesians were not the only great ancient navigators who used simple tools to great effect....

[Factor]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Thor Heyerdahl discovered ancient pyramids in places like Canary Islands and Mauritius. I happen to know both places, ask any villager they will tell you that's how they used to deposit field stones.

I am sure thats relevant - just not sure how?

Lewis, if I remember well, was a doctor of medicine. Should I trust in health advice from mechanical engineers then?

He was also the first man to circumnavigate in a "modern" multihull (with his family), spent significant time in the antarctic on ICE BIRD - he wrote a book about that as well), came third in the first OSTAR race in a 25 footer. Following his longstanding interest in old navigational methods used to explore and populate the Pacific, he employed similar techniques for the Tahiti-New Zealand leg of the Rehu Moana voyage without using a compass, sextant or marine chronometer. So you know what - I stand by my contention. Oh and the Polynesian Navigation research was funded by and peer reviewed by the Australian National university.

Give it up mate, the polynesians were navigators, pure and simple.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by minaret

Just my roundabout way of implying that the Polynesians were not the only great ancient navigators who used simple tools to great effect....

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Factor

I am sure thats relevant - just not sure how?


He was also the first man to circumnavigate in a "modern" multihull (with his family), spent significant time in the antarctic on ICE BIRD - he wrote a book about that as well), came third in the first OSTAR race in a 25 footer. Following his longstanding interest in old navigational methods used to explore and populate the Pacific, he employed similar techniques for the Tahiti-New Zealand leg of the Rehu Moana voyage without using a compass, sextant or marine chronometer. So you know what - I stand by my contention. Oh and the Polynesian Navigation research was funded by and peer reviewed by the Australian National university.

Give it up mate, the polynesians were navigators, pure and simple.

100% agree. I can't even believe this is somehow in contention???

[captain58sailin]

Well barnakiel, you certainly have stirred the pot, good on you, certainly has made for a lively debate.

[Island Time O25]

It's funny how the Cook's contemporary "scientists" were arguing that the ocean levels must have been low enough for the Pacific islanders to get there on foot rather than accept a simple fact that they navigated there hundreds or thousands years before.

We in the West have a linear concept of history - today is more advanced than yesterday and yesterday was more advanced that the day before. We have difficulty accepting the facts which do not fit that linear outlook and which dethrone us from the position at the pinnacle of knowledge. As in glib remarks that "there must have been many who perished for the few to reach those islands", etc, etc. When in fact most likely that many more islanders perished from the new diseases introduced by the Europeans than from deaths while reaching those islands.

[FSMike]

Well -
I used to have a couple of posts on this thread, including one which said I started a new thread about Hokule'a for those who wanted to follow her voyage sans navigational arguments.
Now all of those posts have disappeared.
With no explanation.
Mods?

[AD28]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Well -
I used to have a couple of posts on this thread, including one which said I started a new thread about Hokule'a for those who wanted to follow her voyage sans navigational arguments.
Now all of those posts have disappeared.
With no explanation.
Mods?

still there...
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2081898

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Well -
I used to have a couple of posts on this thread, including one which said I started a new thread about Hokule'a for those who wanted to follow her voyage sans navigational arguments.
Now all of those posts have disappeared.
With no explanation.
Mods?

No posts have been deleted in this thread. Check out posts #37, 39 and 59 to view yours.

One easy way to view your posts is to click on your name above your avatar and select "Find more posts by xxx" from the drop down menu. This saves a lot of hunting.

SWL

[FSMike]

Well, my apologies to all concerned. I apparently did something creative with the keyboard, which is entirely possible since I'm basically computer illiterate. I prefer to think that as opposed to having hallucinations (it's a long time since the 60s).

One unanswered bit - I am unable to find the "Hokule'a Circumnavigation" thread on new posts. Why would that be?
I looked through new posts from current to beyond the date/time I started that thread but its not there. I have to go to the particular forum to find it.
Of course the very act of posting this will make it miraculously appear lol.
Thanks

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Well, my apologies to all concerned. I apparently did something creative with the keyboard, which is entirely possible since I'm basically computer illiterate. I prefer to think that as opposed to having hallucinations (it's a long time since the 60s).

One unanswered bit - I am unable to find the "Hokule'a Circumnavigation" thread on new posts. Why would that be?
I looked through new posts from current to beyond the date/time I started that thread but its not there. I have to go to the particular forum to find it.
Of course the very act of posting this will make it miraculously appear lol.
Thanks

Hi Mike
Unfortunately, it won't miraculously appear for you until someone posts in the thread. You are not seeing your thread in "New Posts", as you have read the last post in the thread (it was in fact yours).

For those interested, the thread can be found here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2081892

SWL