Aground at Elbow Cay

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Shoot.. who told you I've fitted a 500cc engine on my couch..

The beer keg supply guys

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by weavis

Isnt boating about being as safe as you can? After weighing all the factors and the odds, skip has to decide what is safe for the boat himself and the crew... Cant tell you the times Ive had to lose all the gains made by painful tacking when a storm blew up...



Still here to turn around yet once more...

It’s not being as safe as you can, cause that means never leave the dock.
It is about managing risks of course, and everyone has different levels of tolerance for that. Of course the trick is correctly identifying those risks, and that comes from experience and to some extent training.
Personally I always try to have a bail out whenever possible, and option B if you will so that when my Plan goes to heck I have already thought about what to try next.
Sometimes of course there just isn’t a plan B, and it’s those times that make me nervous, cause then what do you do when Plan A goes down the toilet?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It’s not being as safe as you can, cause that means never leave the dock.
It is about managing risks of course, and everyone has different levels of tolerance for that. Of course the trick is correctly identifying those risks, and that comes from experience and to some extent training.
Personally I always try to have a bail out whenever possible, and option B if you will so that when my Plan goes to heck I have already thought about what to try next.
Sometimes of course there just isn’t a plan B, and it’s those times that make me nervous, cause then what do you do when Plan A goes down the toilet?

Well. If you have family on board, I would hazard a guess that my risk tolerance might just be a little higher than yours.... You have far more to lose than I do in terms of personnel.

In saying that, and living in Florida for several years, I have been caught out several times by storms that just............ appear. Winds, weather and waves.

Sometimes I could not see a thing.

Sometimes plan B is just to be upright after it passes.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Exile,
Did they remove the range markers on Bimini which we used for 10 years up to 2006? They are clearly marked on the paper charts. It made entry into the harbor very easy. Rognvald

I'm not recalling range markers coming into Bimini, at least in 2010. And I think my last run out there prior to that was back in the 1980's. I also vaguely recall that the "pink house" was gone in 2010. I don't have access to my paper charts right now but the rasters & vectors on OpenCPN don't show any range markers. Nor does Garmin Bluechart (using Explorer charts?), although it does have a cautionary note from Jan. 2017 about shoaling that extends all the way from the green marker to the red, and to run south of the red! Other notes talk about temp markers that are sometimes found but I wouldn't recommend relying on those without local knowledge. In that regard, I don't think you'd want to rely on range markers even if they were present, especially with the hurricane activity the past couple of years. Serious tidal currents run through there as I'm sure you know.

Originally Posted by Group9

I remember. Head for the beach until you are about to have a heart attack then turn left.

That's it! And waiting for a sportfish to pass by & follow the wake. It usually doesn't take long. Never had much luck calling one of the marinas for info. But hey, that's what we love about the Bahamas!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Shoot.. who told you I've fitted a 500cc engine on my couch..

If it's a 2-stroke . . . well then . . . that explains everything.

I (fortunately) missed that (99-page!!) Atlantic delivery thread of yours, but noticed it was from almost FOUR years ago! Only read the first few pages, but did we learn anything other than how irritating checking into the US can be for a limey, Boatie's beer drinking habits, how to avoid contaminated water tanks (maybe?), and why it may not be a good idea to post your tracking info on a public website?? I was heartened to learn that a commercial big ship captain would take the "duty to mariners" rule seriously enough to be so kind as to arrange a delivery of fresh water to a sailboat on the high seas. Very cool. In doing so, apparently that cap didn't feel that any (potential?) lost time & (significant?) add'l fuel expense outweighed helping out a fellow sailor, so why should any of us?

As for the current thread, it's prompted some worthwhile learning but hard to say that the criticisms have been "constructive" since there's so few facts that we actually know, and much of the speculation appears to have turned out wrong.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

If it's a 2-stroke . . . well then . . . that explains everything.

I (fortunately) missed that (99-page!!) Atlantic delivery thread of yours, but noticed it was from almost FOUR years ago! Only read the first few pages, but did we learn anything other than how irritating checking into the US can be for a limey, Boatie's beer drinking habits, how to avoid contaminated water tanks (maybe?), and why it may not be a good idea to post your tracking info on a public website?? I was heartened to learn that a commercial big ship captain would take the "duty to mariners" rule seriously enough to be so kind as to arrange a delivery of fresh water to a sailboat on the high seas. Very cool. In doing so, apparently that cap didn't feel that any (potential?) lost time & (significant?) add'l fuel expense outweighed helping out a fellow sailor, so why should any of us?

As for the current thread, it's prompted some worthwhile learning but hard to say that the criticisms have been "constructive" since there's so few facts that we actually know, and much of the speculation appears to have turned out wrong.

Actually many Captains do take assistance at sea very seriously and will assist if they can.. this was a first (and hopefully last) for me but I have known skippers who have called ships up for fuel, medical assistance/advice etc over the years.. or for taking of injured crew.. they travel so much faster and their medical facilities are much better.
As for the current thread.. unless the skipper gets involved all one can do is speculate and suggest possibilities/alternatives if it had been mine/yours/whoevers boat.

[Epicurus]

I am so saddened by many of the comments I have read. I am currently in Elbow Cay and have had a chance to speak to the Captain, look him in the eye and shake his hand. He is a very kind, decent and forthright man. I learned years ago that unless you have walked in someones shoes and experienced what they have experienced you should never judge. I would think that as a sailing community the best thing we could do would be to rally around this fellow mariner and not judge and speculate. I am so warmed by the fact the community here on Elbow Cay is second to none and has welcomed this brave man and his crew into their hearts and homes.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Epicurus

I am so saddened by many of the comments I have read. I am currently in Elbow Cay and have had a chance to speak to the Captain, look him in the eye and shake his hand. He is a very kind, decent and forthright man. I learned years ago that unless you have walked in someones shoes and experienced what they have experienced you should never judge. I would think that as a sailing community the best thing we could do would be to rally around this fellow mariner and not judge and speculate. I am so warmed by the fact the community here on Elbow Cay is second to none and has welcomed this brave man and his crew into their hearts and homes.

Does it look like they will be able to salvage the boat and get it off the beach?

[Epicurus]

Hi Paul,

It rode across numerous reefs and sustained significant damage to the hull and was sinking when it beached. The Captain hopes to remove many of the sellable items on the boat, what is left will be cut up and hauled away. Sadly she will never sail again. The Captain truly loved this well built tank of boat, and knows that she saved their lives. He is already making plans to sail another boat, a true testament to his character.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Epicurus

Hi Paul,

It rode across numerous reefs and sustained significant damage to the hull and was sinking when it beached. The Captain hopes to remove many of the sellable items on the boat, what is left will be cut up and hauled away. Sadly she will never sail again. The Captain truly loved this well built tank of boat, and knows that she saved their lives. He is already making plans to sail another boat, a true testament to his character.

Sad....

[boatman61]

Well she did her job and got you guys to safety against the odds so one could say she died with honour..

[Group9]

Stuff is replacable, lives aren't. When it comes to threading through reefs at night in a rage, I agree with the airplane pilots. Any landing you can walk away from is a good one.

[JC Reefer]

Glad that the crew is safe. Respectfully, the skipper screwed the pooch when he left safe harbor in PR in a vessel that was clearly not up for the task. I understand that things do happen but if you and the vessel are prepared for trouble AND LEAVE A LARGE MARGIN FOR ERROR then you'll have more options when things go wrong.

The decision to go up that coast line is kinda crummy considering the 4 days of bad weather and hand steering. In 4 days they would have sailed past the Exumas, Eleuthera and 40 miles of the Abacos all hand steering in bad weather without an engine, electronics or a good fix on their position? Skipper decided not to quit, deviate or change plans even after the conditions turned sour.

You can only blame the vessel and the conditions and the 2 failing anchors so much. Don't look at this and say "tough luck better next time." Really see it for what it is, someone who took the responsibility of crews safety for granted.

That being said, we make mistakes.

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Well, back to the discussion on the beaching at Elbow Cay.

There is much that I do not know but I did not realize until reading this thread that there are conditions where a well-found, modern sailboat cannot make progress to windward. I would find it insightful if someone could say a few words on how much this is due to the design of this particular boat and how much of it is weather.

Seems to me that the parting of the rode would indicate a worn or undersized rode.

It occurs to me that the owner and captain of a much older boat with a litany of problems including the engine, the hull to deck joint, and the loss of both anchors and rodes might see beaching her safely as a positive outcome since the financial loss, if any, would be small, after things like solar panels and electronics are salvaged.

It's a mistake to generalise. Modern boats are generally capable of making progress to windward if conditions allow. If you sail in tidal waters you will find many occasions when the wind is so light that progress to windward against the tide is impossible or so slow as to be futile.
In high winds, even if it's possible to get the boat at a sufficient angle to the wind the sea state may make it impossible to make progress. The sea state will vary widely according to local conditions such as the sea-bed, currents, reefs etc.
Perhaps the most important factor is the crew. A well-practised, fit, efficient racing crew will have the skills and motivation (and their boat and equipment are more likely to be in top-class condition) to push the boat to windward in conditions where a two-person cruising boat will have decided it's not for them and headed for the nearest pub. Fatigue is a large factor. It may be possible to beat, but for how long? It's very tiring. I like a good stiff beat, but for perhaps five or six hours maximum.
I believe that there are conditions where it's impossible for any small sailing boat to make progress to windward. I've never experienced them, and I hope I never do. On the other hand there is the example of Pete Goss who sailed into reportedly hurricane-force winds to rescue another competitor in a Vendee-Globe race some years ago. That can only be described as heroic.

As far as the anchor rode is concerned, I'm assuming it was rope. If so it would chafe through very quickly in those conditions. Most serious cruisers use chain for that reason. Rope is lighter, of course, so you can carry more of it, but it is vulnerable to chafe.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Epicurus.