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Old 10-05-2021, 17:17   #61
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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Originally Posted by BeginnerBoater View Post
Yes, the outcomes are different, but these both have one thing in common: They both warn me about some bad thing that will happen if I don't take action.

...................
...................

No they do not.


requiem already explained this to you:


My car's GPS voice doesn't alert to hazards either; it simply says things like "in 200 m, turn right". Really not much different from chartplotter routing with defined segments replacing roads. If the road ends in a T-intersection it's not going to start blaring "pull up! pull up!".
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Old 10-05-2021, 18:04   #62
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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This from the user manual of SITEX plotter http://productimageserver.com/litera...al/48679OM.pdf



Grounding Alarm

To verify potential danger to navigation such as shallow water (depth areas), intertidal areas, land, rocks, obstructions and shoreline constructions. The maps are scanned every 10 seconds. If any of the above objects are found, the chart plotter notifies the danger on a dedicated warning message box. The active "Grounding Alarms" are shown in the Grounding Alarm Report page.To activate the Grounding Alarm: [MENU] + "Alarms" + [ENTER] + "Grounding Alarm" + [ENTER]The chart plotter scans a sector in front of the boat. The direction is determined by the current boat heading. You can select the length and its angle is 30 degrees. The Grounding Alarm is switched Off by default after a Master Reset.Grounding Alarm RangeTo set the length of the sector to be detected among 0.25, 0.5, 1.0 Nm. [MENU] + "Alarms" + [ENTER] + "Grounding Alarm Range" + [ENTER
Interesting. I see the company is still in business but these devices were "new" in 2013 with a MSRP of $1000 to $2000 respectively. They are discontinued now. Is there any version of it still in production? Do you have any experience with them?
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Old 10-05-2021, 21:16   #63
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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The navigators (used in land traffic) have offered audio warnings since the very beginning, around 20 years. How is it with plotters, are there any that gives audio alerts? I mean, if you are heading towards shallows, it would alarm the boat driver. Technically that feature is a peanut to make. I have absolutely minimal experience with chart plotters, do they give even visual alerts?


If I understand you correctly you want a self driving boat that tells you to look out, like a Tesla on the water?
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Old 10-05-2021, 22:02   #64
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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I think that we have established that there are existing navigation solutions that will give and audible alert if you are approaching an area of shallow water and that the definition of "shallow" is user defined.


We have also established that there are existing navigation solutions that will give an audible alert to you if you get too close to any area that you define as dangerous.


You have explained that you did not know that any marine navigation system was capable of providing any type of audible alarm. You now know that is not the case.


Exactly what are you looking for that is not currently available in any dedicated marine navigation device?
You're completely right, I've got the answers I was looking for.: the systems I was looking for do exist.

However, there has been raised another issue: Are the audible warnings useful in boating or not, and pretty many here keep claiming they are not. That the only method for proper boating is to keep your eyes on the chartplotter. Of course, only the practice will finally show what the truth is, but meanwhile I like to challenge these old-fashioned thoughts.
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Old 10-05-2021, 22:09   #65
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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If I understand you correctly you want a self driving boat that tells you to look out, like a Tesla on the water?
Eventually, yes (but that was not written in my OP). I believe, that in 30...40 years boats will do that. Today, I only want to become alerted well in advance, if there's a beneath hazard in my course. And all this without locking my cruise plan in advance. And I've got the answer: the solutions do exist.
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Old 10-05-2021, 23:55   #66
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

On a vaguely related note, I happened to be looking through the manual of current model Honda Accords. Apparently the safety system on them will sound warning alerts and then apply the brakes once a collision appears unavoidable.

From one standpoint, "just pay better attention" is not the most effective risk mitigation strategy. Human wetware is buggy, gets easily fatigued, and performance ranges vary wildly. To resist augmenting it with automation is folly.

On the other hand I've enough experience with software to not rely on it either. Doing that can see you end up like this or this. Abdicating responsibility to software can have grave consequences.
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Old 11-05-2021, 00:02   #67
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

Beginnerboater, sure you could go skydiving with a little voice yelling at you to deploy your chute and try to figure that one out on the spot.

Here in our waters we can’t swim more than 50m and without being too dramatic hitting a rock could mean death for all aboard.

Why wait until a voice is telling me “pull up, pull up...” when I can see the ground and can maneuver a plane safely without ever coming within 1000 feet of it.

Sometimes before a multihour trip I look at my charts once for about 5 minutes to go - ah alright avoid this shoreline and give that point plenty of clearance. Come into the east side of the bay and I’m off. I only have the couple of exceptions to remember. I am not thinking about them constantly. It develops my local knowledge more as I have to remember these things for more than 5 seconds.

I reckon a shallow water alarm based on potential collision with a high speed vessel and just enough time to turn would result in an alarm anytime your bow crossed a shoreline. If you’re tracing a shoreline in a speedboat it may be going off every minute despite no real danger except once a trip.

I get that at powerboat speeds your eyes would have to be glued to charts to understand and navigate the shallows in real time. That said “if I stay 50m from shore all the way around I only have to worry about this rock on the north side” is an easy enough thing to do.

If you reckon the best way to drive a car is with your foot on the gas the whole time and letting the automatic brakes deal with the stopping.... I wouldn’t underwrite your insurance and would put speed bumps in front of my house if your route took you there.
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Old 19-05-2021, 01:55   #68
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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Beginnerboater, sure you could go skydiving with a little voice yelling at you to deploy your chute and try to figure that one out on the spot.

Here in our waters we can’t swim more than 50m and without being too dramatic hitting a rock could mean death for all aboard.

Why wait until a voice is telling me “pull up, pull up...” when I can see the ground and can maneuver a plane safely without ever coming within 1000 feet of it.

Sometimes before a multihour trip I look at my charts once for about 5 minutes to go - ah alright avoid this shoreline and give that point plenty of clearance. Come into the east side of the bay and I’m off. I only have the couple of exceptions to remember. I am not thinking about them constantly. It develops my local knowledge more as I have to remember these things for more than 5 seconds.

I reckon a shallow water alarm based on potential collision with a high speed vessel and just enough time to turn would result in an alarm anytime your bow crossed a shoreline. If you’re tracing a shoreline in a speedboat it may be going off every minute despite no real danger except once a trip.

I get that at powerboat speeds your eyes would have to be glued to charts to understand and navigate the shallows in real time. That said “if I stay 50m from shore all the way around I only have to worry about this rock on the north side” is an easy enough thing to do.

If you reckon the best way to drive a car is with your foot on the gas the whole time and letting the automatic brakes deal with the stopping.... I wouldn’t underwrite your insurance and would put speed bumps in front of my house if your route took you there.
Hi! Thanks for your writing.
In my waters, hitting a rock means $500-3,000 repairings to the boat or motor (depending on the speed and how deep the rock is) - that's all. An underwater rock doesn't destroy the boat completely, and I don't understand, why the situation in your waters is different in this manner. Are the rocks sharper or are the boats weaker?

In your “pull up, pull up...” case, you see the ground. But if you don't (like you don't see the underwater rocks in waters), wouldn't you want to get an alert?

I'm not speaking about powerboat speed, maybe 15...20 knots. In general, it appears that you had some difficulties in figuring out, what I was looking for.
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Old 19-05-2021, 02:13   #69
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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Originally Posted by Tin Tin View Post
This from the user manual of SITEX plotter http://productimageserver.com/litera...al/48679OM.pdf



Grounding Alarm

To verify potential danger to navigation such as shallow water (depth areas), intertidal areas, land, rocks, obstructions and shoreline constructions. The maps are scanned every 10 seconds. If any of the above objects are found, the chart plotter notifies the danger on a dedicated warning message box. The active "Grounding Alarms" are shown in the Grounding Alarm Report page.To activate the Grounding Alarm: [MENU] + "Alarms" + [ENTER] + "Grounding Alarm" + [ENTER]The chart plotter scans a sector in front of the boat. The direction is determined by the current boat heading. You can select the length and its angle is 30 degrees. The Grounding Alarm is switched Off by default after a Master Reset.Grounding Alarm RangeTo set the length of the sector to be detected among 0.25, 0.5, 1.0 Nm. [MENU] + "Alarms" + [ENTER] + "Grounding Alarm Range" + [ENTER

I had difficulties in figuring out, if that Grounding Alarm gives a visual alarm only? No mention about audible alart.
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Old 19-05-2021, 02:26   #70
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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Hi! Thanks for your writing.
In my waters, hitting a rock means $500-3,000 repairings to the boat or motor (depending on the speed and how deep the rock is) - that's all. An underwater rock doesn't destroy the boat completely, and I don't understand, why the situation in your waters is different in this manner. Are the rocks sharper or are the boats weaker?

In your “pull up, pull up...” case, you see the ground. But if you don't (like you don't see the underwater rocks in waters), wouldn't you want to get an alert?

I'm not speaking about powerboat speed, maybe 15...20 knots. In general, it appears that you had some difficulties in figuring out, what I was looking for.
15-20 knots generally speaking exceeds what sailboats do.

The example with the pull up alarm - you should be at 30,000 feet where it’s safe and known to be rather than aimlessly flying until something alerts you to a problem. Sure the alarms are nice to have, but in our case there is no substitute for prior planning.

Rocks are probably sharper here on average. Lol
You are posting on a cruising forum where most of us expect to be days away from any help a good portion of the time. Think more like “All is Lost” (movie) and less like some inconvenient gel coat repair. I am not sure about marine labor where you live but even that gel coat repair could cost more than $3k not to mention if you rip an engine out of your stern.

I’ve seen boats near cracked in half from full speed running aground. (Racing sailboats) and know someone who nearly had to abandon ship because they ran aground at night (because they didn’t have a good fix on their location). Granted most groundings just present an inconvenience.

The water is often very cold and you can sink the boat rather quickly. We had a sailboat go down here in pretty windy conditions. There was help 200 yards away and still half the crew died. This was because of the difficulty of performing a rescue in the conditions and the temperature of the water. Granted that was in a capsizing caused by poor ballast and they had their hatch boards open which caused the boat to immediately flood. They were probably in what most people would consider swimming distance to shore as well, but in the cold water your muscles bind up quickly and moving a lot to swim bleeds your heat super fast. Point remains, people die all of the time. Often for stupid mistakes... like running into rocks - or falling off your boat... which is more likely if it hits something.

You know. Probably the easiest way to get what you want is to get a device capable of geofence alarms. Then set one with some wiggle room around your navigable waters. This way you know where to avoid when the buzzer goes off that you’ve left the road so to speak. By the time you’ve done that you should know where every navigation hazard is anyway. So it’s a win win.
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Old 19-05-2021, 02:41   #71
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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15-20 knots generally speaking exceeds what sailboats do.

The example with the pull up alarm - you should be at 30,000 feet where it’s safe and known to be rather than aimlessly flying until something alerts you to a problem. Sure the alarms are nice to have, but in our case there is no substitute for prior planning.

Rocks are probably sharper here on average. Lol
You are posting on a cruising forum where most of us expect to be days away from any help a good portion of the time. Think more like “All is Lost” (movie) and less like some inconvenient gel coat repair. I am not sure about marine labor where you live but even that gel coat repair could cost more than $3k not to mention if you rip an engine out of your stern.

I’ve seen boats near cracked in half from full speed running aground. (Racing sailboats) and know someone who nearly had to abandon ship because they ran aground at night (because they didn’t have a good fix on their location). Granted most groundings just present an inconvenience.

The water is often very cold and you can sink the boat rather quickly. We had a sailboat go down here in pretty windy conditions. There was help 200 yards away and still half the crew died. This was because of the difficulty of performing a rescue in the conditions and the temperature of the water. Granted that was in a capsizing caused by poor ballast and they had their hatch boards open which caused the boat to immediately flood. They were probably in what most people would consider swimming distance to shore as well, but in the cold water your muscles bind up quickly and moving a lot to swim bleeds your heat super fast. Point remains, people die all of the time. Often for stupid mistakes... like running into rocks - or falling off your boat... which is more likely if it hits something.

You know. Probably the easiest way to get what you want is to get a device capable of geofence alarms. Then set one with some wiggle room around your navigable waters. This way you know where to avoid when the buzzer goes off that you’ve left the road so to speak. By the time you’ve done that you should know where every navigation hazard is anyway. So it’s a win win.
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize this is a sailing boat group... Anyway, it was you that first wrote about "speedboat speeds".

I didn't mention in my OP about the waters I'd like to boat, but in later writings that came clear very well. Maybe you haven't read them. Anyway, lakes with warm water, no sharks (in Finland), perfect mobile network, max 1Nm to nearest dry land. Boating 99% in bright daylight, good visibility, warm weather.

In my opinion, taking an aimlessly flying jumbo jet and comparing it to a joyriding motor boat on a lake just isn't reasonable. Kind of a lack of judgement.
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Old 19-05-2021, 03:57   #72
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Re: A chart plotter with audible alerts?

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If I understand you correctly you want a self driving boat that tells you to look out, like a Tesla on the water?
[I misunderstood your post first, I fix it now]

No, that's not what I want. I want to stay aware, observe the water area for risks, hazards, and just enjoy the view. But those hazards, that my eye can't see (underwater), I want that my chart plotter alerts me audible (as it knows them).
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