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Old 20-11-2021, 09:13   #76
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

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Originally Posted by rooiedirk View Post
Time to adopt gradians in navigation
Sounds strange at first, but is surprisingly not a bad idea. Both allows the nautical mile to be retired (gets everyone on the same units, yay!) and makes it easier to use traditional compass directions:

NW = 350 gon vs 315°
NNW = 375 gon vs 337.5°
NWxN = 362.5 gon vs. 326.25°
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Old 21-11-2021, 05:37   #77
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

I remember the old school navigation

" where are you going ?"
" over there"
" how far away is that ??
" it's aways..."
" how long will that take"
" dunno, we'll see"
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Old 21-11-2021, 07:40   #78
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

"Has anyone seen Sir Cloudesley Shovell?"
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Old 21-11-2021, 12:34   #79
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

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Originally Posted by billgewater View Post
Yes, early Sumerian stuff shows the absence of a zero as a numerical concept, but later, around the middle of the second millennium BC they used the symbol for two 10's laying on its side as an indicator of "nothing" in the appropriate space. Check it out pages 152, 153,154 in George Ifrah's "The Universal History of Numbers". They also developed a special indicator that looks like their 10 symbol with an extended leg, again on its side (British Museum 24581). Symbols for zero's as place value indicators first appear in Cambodia and Indonesia but the Indian zero appeared later then in Mohamed ibn Musa's book on Hindi numbers. (about 895 AD). The modern Arabic zero is not a circle - it's a blob. The word zero means "empty" as in a circle. However, zero on a number line as we learn in school was a much later development. A very handy concept.


Another fascinating titbit in the history of the evolution of the metaphysical universe created by the human mind.
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Old 22-11-2021, 07:03   #80
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

A good scientific calculator will have DMS or ° ' ''.

If you need to calculate yacht handicaps use the fact that 60sec=1min, 60min=1hr OR 1 degree.

Saves a lot of time trying to convert seconds and minutes to decimal hours or whatever is your unit if choice
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Old 22-11-2021, 07:10   #81
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

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Originally Posted by Rockinar View Post
If theres 60 seconds in 1 minute, Why is there only 10 seconds in this minute?
Most of this discussion focuses on angular seconds and minutes - fractions of a degree - as is appropriate.

But I feel compelled to point out that since 1970, there are only usually sixty seconds of time in a second of time. There can be as few as 58 or as many as 62.
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Old 22-11-2021, 08:12   #82
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

Minutes, seconds? Very interesting, but when it comes to precision, one needs a measure and a tool to guide . . . for example, if you want to avoid grounding (or worse) in Mainit Bay, Banton Island, you had better take down these coordinates N12deg 55.492' E122deg 03.333' They will take your anchor to the only sandy bottom with good holding, about 50 meters round, surrounded by coral heads and rocks. If approaching a night you may (possibly) see one light one the hillside that looks a hell of a lot closer than it really is but do not be put off, keep to the coordinates, drop the hook.



When you wake in the morning you will see a hillside dotted with occasional small houses, a few fishermen, kids at play on the beach and a dozen turtles enjoying the hot water springs that emit from beneath the bay.


I recorded the position in daylight and returned in an emergency at night, two years later, with only a pre-programmed GPS.


A minute, a second . . . have faith in the wonders of modern technology until the day that the plethora of new satellites screw up and paper is the only thing that matters. And the knowledge that one (nautical mile) mile is equal one minute of latitude and there are 60 seconds to one minute . . . there is nothing else.
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Old 22-11-2021, 11:40   #83
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

On the chart the 25’ represents minutes of longitude on the horizontal axis. Each mark underlined to the right represents 1/10 of a minute of longitude.
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Old 22-11-2021, 12:24   #84
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

Amen! And they’re not replaced by new skills, but rather buy an algorithm somewhere!
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Old 22-11-2021, 12:27   #85
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

Amen again!

Or… You’re in the middle of the ocean in a bad storm and your electronics are all useless because they are without power or all wet!
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Old 22-11-2021, 13:28   #86
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alitaptap View Post
Minutes, seconds? Very interesting, but when it comes to precision, one needs a measure and a tool to guide . . . for example, if you want to avoid grounding (or worse) in Mainit Bay, Banton Island, you had better take down these coordinates N12deg 55.492' E122deg 03.333' They will take your anchor to the only sandy bottom with good holding, about 50 meters round, surrounded by coral heads and rocks. If approaching a night you may (possibly) see one light one the hillside that looks a hell of a lot closer than it really is but do not be put off, keep to the coordinates, drop the hook.

WHat does 50 metre round mean?
A 50 metre radius circle ?

A 50 metre diameter circle?

A 50 metre circumference circle?
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Old 22-11-2021, 13:38   #87
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

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Originally Posted by alitaptap View Post
Minutes, seconds? Very interesting, but when it comes to precision, one needs a measure and a tool to guide . . . for example, if you want to avoid grounding (or worse) in Mainit Bay, Banton Island, you had better take down these coordinates N12deg 55.492' E122deg 03.333' They will take your anchor to the only sandy bottom with good holding, about 50 meters round, surrounded by coral heads and rocks. If approaching a night you may (possibly) see one light one the hillside that looks a hell of a lot closer than it really is but do not be put off, keep to the coordinates, drop the hook.



When you wake in the morning you will see a hillside dotted with occasional small houses, a few fishermen, kids at play on the beach and a dozen turtles enjoying the hot water springs that emit from beneath the bay.


I recorded the position in daylight and returned in an emergency at night, two years later, with only a pre-programmed GPS.


A minute, a second . . . have faith in the wonders of modern technology until the day that the plethora of new satellites screw up and paper is the only thing that matters. And the knowledge that one (nautical mile) mile is equal one minute of latitude and there are 60 seconds to one minute . . . there is nothing else.
Hang on a mo.
You tell us one (nautical mile) mile is equal one minute of latitude and there are 60 seconds to one minute . . . there is nothing else.

But before that you said that you gave us a position using 'decimal minutes'
you had better take down these coordinates N12deg 55.492' E122deg 03.333'

I'm confused, which is it??
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Old 22-11-2021, 14:25   #88
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
What he said ^^^^
'seconds of arc' are so very much yesterday.
These days every real fair dinkum navigator uses minutes of arc and decimal minutes - as shown in your example.
So as not to confuse anyone when passing your lat and long, you do not mention seconds if using metric position, only degrees, minutes and then parts of a minute to three decimal places eg "position is 050 degrees 46 decimal 985 minutes North, 001 degrees 006 decimal 490 degrees West".= four bar port hand buoy entering Portsmouth Harbour which I have just hit if this my position
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Old 22-11-2021, 16:17   #89
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Re: 1 Minute = 60 Seconds?

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Originally Posted by garychurch View Post
On the chart the 25’ represents minutes of longitude on the horizontal axis. Each mark underlined to the right represents 1/10 of a minute of longitude.
I think you must be referring to the chart I posted (#72). Surely you noticed the ten ticks to the right of 25', do not fill the entirety of the space between the 25' and 24' marks? They take up about 1/6 of that gap. You can see to the right of 24', there are 6 similarly-sized spaces. Each of those marks you mentioned are 1 sec.
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