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Old 20-07-2022, 07:00   #1
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: France
Boat: Beneteau 343 (34', 10.8m)
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Windlass tripping more than it should?

Looking for advice on how to deal with my windlass tripping repeatedly. Here's my situation:
- Boat: 2007 Beneteau 343
- Windlass: Quick Antares 1012 (I think it must be 1000W version because I have a 100A breaker for it)
- chain: brand new 10mm
- anchor: 20Kg/45lb

The boat is new to me. I replaced the rusty chain/anchor with a new setup. I don't believe the windlass has been serviced in the last 15 years. It does seem to be noisier than my last Quick windlass on another boat. Not sure what that means.

When I first applied power to the windlass after months of non-use, it barely budged, but then it seemed to accept the fact that it couldn't completely ignore the electrons being thrown at it, so it picked up speed and chain.

A month later, with new chain/anchor, it easily dropped it without complaint. We ran out 40 meters (we're somewhere with 5m tides) and all was good. When we tried to bring up the chain (14m of depth at the time) we could only bring in 5-10m before the breaker tripped. The chain was straight down at the time, no load on it.

It seems that what I'll need to do is to pull the motor and try to get it rebuilt, but I wonder if anyone has any other ideas about diagnostics or things to try.
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Old 20-07-2022, 07:34   #2
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Location: Panama, Central America
Boat: CT 49, 1989
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

First things I would check is-

Loose/ corroded connections particularly the big high current ones onto the windless motor and solenoid. Including earths.

Your battery/s are in good condition? Windlasses are a big load, one of the biggest for the average boat battery system.

Get your multi meter and check the voltage at those same points. Voltage drop is the killer for windlasses, especially 12v and especially without a battery at the windlass.

Low voltage means higher amperage which will trip breakers.

I assume you are 12v?
Where is your battery? You have one at the chain locker for the windless or you are running thick cables from you house batts?

I assume you are running the motor so the Alternator is helping with a bit higher voltage.
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Old 20-07-2022, 07:56   #3
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Great questions!

- Brand new 12V AGMs (250Ah total)
- No battery near the windlass
- Engine was running at about 1500 RPMs while doing it (wanted to make sure it was spitting out electrons)

I did fix/tighten the motor electrical connections about a month ago after some problems and I did notice that one of the terminals was cherry-red from a loose connection. After I cleaned it up/tightened it seemed to address the problem. So I think the connections to the solenoid and to the motor are solid - but you're right, I need to check the voltage drop still in case I have an issue somewhere.
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Old 20-07-2022, 08:08   #4
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Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 50
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Often it takes more than tightening the connections. They need to be cleaned to remove oxidation, meaning to bright metal, then greased so it doesn't happen again.

Since the windlass is 15 years old, it is possible / likely the brushes and commutator are scored. Depending on the motor, both can be cleaned up and smoothed with sandpaper. It's a several hour job. If you don't feel comfortable doing it, a shop can do it. If the windings are burned, unlikely, you will need a new motor.

Have fun.
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Old 20-07-2022, 08:23   #5
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Damn. Looks like one of those projects where swear words are required to make it happen.
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Old 20-07-2022, 08:26   #6
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Yes, I would remove the motor if you can , open it up and clean things out. It's very unlikely the brushes are worn out, but there may be a lot of dust and etc gumming up the works. Make sure the end bearings are not corroded or bad and clean up the commutator/armature with fine wet dry sand paper. or Scotchbrite.

BUT FIRST: One alternative is to just electrically free wheel the windlass with no load/chain attached and see if it just needs to be used a bit to loosen up.
If it trips doing this, you may have internal windlass load issues, bad gears, bad bearings...
Also, see how it sounds doing this.... you mentioned it sounds weird.... that may indicate it's not your motor that's the issue!
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Old 20-07-2022, 08:27   #7
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Ok good.

Yes exactly check all your terminal crimps and connections at you battery connection end too.

So check if you can see what cable size you have from you house batts forward to the windlass.

If the previous owner was trying to save some money on thinner cables than required. Thinner cables also are easier to install, fit in tighter spaces etc.

What you need to do is try and determine-
The return cable run, a guess it's probably something like 50 feet by the time it weaves in around the place.
Then your Windlass Ampage (or wattage) reqd. Might be on a data plate. Or might be able to get a Part/ model number. Google that, or talk to manufacturer. 100A sounds like a reasonable guess.

Then look up the 12v ampacity and voltage drop tables (plenty online) to see what Cable size is required.

If all that checks out, which if I were a betting man would say it wont. But pulling the Windlass is the next move.

You say it was redone not long ago. But the usual suspects are-
Brushes worn,
Gearbox, or bearings seized, or almost.

Good luck.
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Old 20-07-2022, 08:38   #8
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Are you certain the new chain matches the gypsy?
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Old 20-07-2022, 12:21   #9
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjShap View Post
Are you certain the new chain matches the gypsy?
Definitely. I did the measure 10 links thing and made sure the new chain was the right spec. However, the new chain is freshly galvanized versus the old chain being 15 years and rusty. So there is that difference.
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Old 20-07-2022, 12:24   #10
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

I've been trying to find a motor rewinding service, but haven't mastered the French term for that (yet). Someday, I might learn the local lingo, but right now it is more likely to come out as "no entiendo" rather than "je ne comprends pas".

I have disconnected the "safety" relay that forces the engine to be on to use the windlass because I had an intermittent fault with the relay that drove it. It was easier to just jump the relay with a wire than try to solve the root problem.

According to the wisdom of the forum, things to do from least amount of swearing to most:

Family-friendly:
With the engine running (right?):
- check voltage at breaker
- check voltage at solenoid
- check voltage at motor
I'm supposed to have less than 5% drop in total? So if I measure 13V at breaker, I should see 12.35V at motor. According to a wire calculator, it says for a 12m run of 00 AWG (9.3mm diameter, 70mm2 area) that I will see almost 5% of a drop (12.39V). I'm pretty sure that is my wire size, but I'll double check.
- measure current going to windlass. I'll have to see if I can find a 100A+ meter...
- free wheel the windlass with no load to "free things up"
- clean all connections carrying loads so they're nice and shiny, protect with the correct magic fluid/grease

Minor gods invoked:
- figure out where the lubrication system/inlet is and what kind of grease/oil it might benefit from
- hopefully limited disassembly...
- see if it runs better/worse after messing with it

Four-letter words released at volume:
- figure out how to remove just the motor from a small enclosure with limited access to the tools I'll need
- remove what I can from the motor (hopefully remembering where it all goes) and check the spinny bits and if they are appropriately shiny (or not). If not, make them shiny.
- clean the motor (air? mineral spirits? the alcohol I should be drinking by now?)
- take it in to be rebuilt (because at this point, why wouldn't you?)
- reassemble what you can, add excess parts to the plastic bin for those things

Thanks for your input on this. I've got a plan now and I didn't have one before.
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Old 22-07-2022, 08:21   #11
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Replace the breaker.
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Old 22-07-2022, 08:29   #12
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Check brushes.

Verify that bearings are free and that gearing is lubricated. Worm gears will not perform unless an adequate supply of the correct type of lubricant is available.

Check that connector size is adequate for current. Measure voltage under load to see if it drops significantly.
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Old 22-07-2022, 11:50   #13
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Check for grease fittings and make sure all is well lubricated.
On my boat I bring in the chain about 20ft (6m), pause and spray with washdown pump, then engage again for the next section.
If I try to run the windlass constantly to bring in 150ft of chain without pausing the breaker will trip.
Pausing seems to make a difference.
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Old 22-07-2022, 12:55   #14
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

I made the mistake of bringing all my chain in after a hurricane with out stopping. When I took the brushes out, they would no longer move freely. As if they were stuck. I sanded them down a bit and reassembled. It worked fine for a couple of trips. I purchased new brushes (they were the wrong size and had to trim them down). They work pretty well but doesn't have the power as before. I second all that has been mentioned especially the dielectric grease on all of the connectors.
Dielectric grease is a life saver for corrosion on wire connectors (IMO). I put dielectric grease on the fitting then put heat shrink over it. As I heat the shrink, it squeezes the excess grease out, hopefully making the fitting grease tight.
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Old 23-07-2022, 04:34   #15
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Re: Windlass tripping more than it should?

Before you pull the whole windlass, try new lubrication. It's surprising how much drag old oil or grease creates. Far too many owners fail to follow the basic maintenance listed in the owner's manual on boat components that are not easily accessible. Unfortunately "out of sight - out of mind" is a normal trait, so up-to-date maintenance logs and timelines are a plus when buying a boat.
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