Windlass Question

[Dockhead]

My Lewmar vertical windlass has a cone clutch which consists of a conical depression in the chain gypsy into which a matching conical block fits. When you screw the cap down with a winch handle, the conical parts are supposed to grip.

The gripping parts were originally chrome plated and according to the manuals you are supposed to put heavy bearing grease in them. The problem is that the chrome has mostly flaked off the gypsy part leaving mostly bare bronze. I have cleaned and repacked the clutch but it doesn't grip well. I have heavy ground tackle with 100 meters of 12mm chain and a 55kg Rocna anchor, so I do need some pulling power.

Has anyone had this problem? Should I take the chain gypsy to a machine shop and have them get rid of the rest of the flaking chrome and machine the rest smooth? Or is the chrome essential, such that I need to replace the gypsy ($$$ -- ouch!)?

I will be grateful for any advice.

[svHyLyte]

One of the difficulties with cone-clutch arrangements is corrosion and consequential bonding between the bearing surfaces of the clutch and gypsey which makes it difficult to "free-wheel" deploy an anchor. The chrome is, in part, intended to reduce the occurance of corrosion. One necessarily needs friction between the cone surface and the bearing surface of the gypsy in order for the system to work. However, the friction must be controlled to avoid gauling between the surfaces, hence the grease. Of course, an excees of grease is contra-productive in that it will prevent adaquate friction.

The flaking chrome you describe has two effects. It reduces the effective surface areas that come into contact as the clutch is tightened; and, the gaps in the chrome act as little reservoirs for the grease if that is used. While you can have the remaining chrome milled off, before doing that I think I might thoroughly clean the cone and gypsy surfaces and lube them with a light application of a dry lubricant such as SailKote and see how the system performs. You may find that to be adaquate and the remaining chrome will surely give itself up without milling which has its own set of difficulties.

FWIW...

[GordMay]

✓ Well said, svHyLyte!

[blgklr]

May I suggest you get the parts that need it rechromed. Look for a place that does hard chrome. Often rods in hydraulic cylinders on mobile equipment are replated because the gland wears down the plating after thousands of operating hours. I would think once on a windlass would last as long as would be needed.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by blgklr

May I suggest you get the parts that need it rechromed. Look for a place that does hard chrome. Often rods in hydraulic cylinders on mobile equipment are replated because the gland wears down the plating after thousands of operating hours. I would think once on a windlass would last as long as would be needed.

Unless the cone is fully machined and free of any residual Chrome, the foregoing would result in a nicely Chromed but uneven cone surface with the same faults as currently exisit. And, machining the Cone, but not the Gypsy to match (which will require either a CNC Machine or, thanks to computerized technology, an all but extinct Master Machinest) will likely, if not assuredly, result in the misalignment of the mating surfaces of the cone and gypsy.

If my earlier suggestion is not entirely satisfactory a more elaborate fix may be effected by the use of Valve Grinding Paste and the cone drive and gypsy. The cone and gypsy can be "machined" clean of Chrome with perfactly matched mating surfaces by applying Valve Grinding Paste to each, remounting the gypsy, wrapping a short length of chain around the gypsy with the free end secured to a deck cleat to disallow the gypsy to rotate, and tightening the clutch locking ring enough to allow the cone to rotate, albeit with a little some effort on the part of the windlass drive. This process may require several cleanings and subsequent reapplications of Grinding Paste but given how quickly it will nicely cut and polish hardened steel valves, the relatively softer cone and gypsy should clean up pretty quickly. If one then wants to go to the expense of re-chroming the parts, one certainly could but why bother when a little routine maintenance will do the trick at no cost--save time--at all.

FWIW...or not

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Unless the cone is fully machined and free of any residual Chrome, the foregoing would result in a nicely Chromed but uneven cone surface with the same faults as currently exisit. And, machining the Cone, but not the Gypsy to match (which will require either a CNC Machine or, thanks to computerized technology, an all but extinct Master Machinest) will likely, if not assuredly, result in the misalignment of the mating surfaces of the cone and gypsy.

If my earlier suggestion is not entirely satisfactory a more elaborate fix may be effected by the use of Valve Grinding Paste and the cone drive and gypsy. The cone and gypsy can be "machined" clean of Chrome with perfactly matched mating surfaces by applying Valve Grinding Paste to each, remounting the gypsy, wrapping a short length of chain around the gypsy with the free end secured to a deck cleat to disallow the gypsy to rotate, and tightening the clutch locking ring enough to allow the cone to rotate, albeit with a little some effort on the part of the windlass drive. This process may require several cleanings and subsequent reapplications of Grinding Paste but given how quickly it will nicely cut and polish hardened steel valves, the relatively softer cone and gypsy should clean up pretty quickly. If one then wants to go to the expense of re-chroming the parts, one certainly could but why bother when a little routine maintenance will do the trick at no cost--save time--at all.

FWIW...or not

The valve grinding paste is a great idea. I think, however, that the remaining chrome is going to be a problem. Chrome being much harder than bronze, the abrasive valve grinding paste will take down the chrome at a much slower rate and the parts will never match. The bits of chrome left will act as knives against the bronze of the cone.

So I'm still a bit puzzled with this. If I could somehow get the rest of the chrome off, then the valve grinding paste would be just the ticket to get the surfaces smooth and perfectly mated. Then I could have them rechromed.

Otherwise I am starting to think that I will just have to replace all this cr*p ($$$).

[dreamer38851]

Just about anyone who has used an engine lathe for more than 3 months could cut a cone out. It does not take a master machinest. I would even go as far as saying my 11 year old son could do it with the lathe in my garage.

I do need to say I have been working in the tool and die business for over 20 years. CnC machines are time savers but in no way make up for a bad machinist. As a matter of fact you need to be better to use one. That's why the guys setting them up and programing them MAKE MORE MONEY!

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The valve grinding paste is a great idea. I think, however, that the remaining chrome is going to be a problem. Chrome being much harder than bronze, the abrasive valve grinding paste will take down the chrome at a much slower rate and the parts will never match. The bits of chrome left will act as knives against the bronze of the cone.

So I'm still a bit puzzled with this. If I could somehow get the rest of the chrome off, then the valve grinding paste would be just the ticket to get the surfaces smooth and perfectly mated. Then I could have them rechromed.

Otherwise I am starting to think that I will just have to replace all this cr*p ($$$).

FWIW, the chrome plating is merely for corrosion resistance. It is likely "hard chrome" between .003 and .009 in. thick and, considering it has begun flaking off already, it's pretty likely the remainder will give itself up pretty easily, particularly to the silicon/carbide in valve grinding paste. The valve grinding paste will ensure a fair/clean matching mating surface. Considering that 1-1/2 oz of valve grinding paste is typically about $6.50 (USD) a little experimentation would not be unduly costly.

Of course, if the performance of the Windlass is not improved, you can always send the cone clutch and gypsy off to "Dreamer" (aprppos non?) who will have his 11 YO son machine perfectly fair, identically matching, conic bearing sections on his garage lathe, eh?

In either case, Here Homer Nods....

[dreamer38851]

Svhylite,
I was giving a real world answer from a machinist with over 20 years in the business. I never worked in a fab shop or engine shop only real tool and die shops. I have made parts for everything from the space shuttle to packing cams for coca cola.

I have never seen the part you guys are talking about but I do know cutting a cone is a simple task on any engine lathe. The chrome will need to be removed before it will work correctly.

I guess my point was just about ANY machine shop could do the job pretty cheap.

The rest or your post was valid. He may have TO MUCH grease or the wrong type? To much lube is worst than to little many times. Espacally with friction joints and roller bearings.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings that was not my intention.

BYW I would be more than happy to cut the chrome off the part for dockhead. I just think a local machine shop will do it for less than $20.00 so there is really no reason to send it off to be done.