windlass/anchor/chain dimension 40ft yacht

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Airjordi

Regarding keeping the chain short and instead adding rope: Interesting, I have spent many hours thinking about a practicable solution but I've failed to find one. I know that it is nearly impossible to pull a 30kg anchor with a 10m chain out of 10m of water when it's windy. How would I get the main anchor back on board if the boat end is rope and there's 30kt of wind?

With an anchor winch that has a capstan as well as a gypsy, handling rope rode can be done easily, although you do need to develop a system for the rope/chain transition. This is not difficult , but it can slow down the retrieval in tough conditions. Your model of Ovni has a horizontal windlass and most (but not all) horizontal windlasses have a capstan.

If there is no capstan, some modern gypsies will handle both rope and chain, although they sometimes slip when asked to lift a lot on weight when hauling in rope.

However, the big problem with a rope road is the lower level of abrasion resistance. So most long distance cruisers stick to all chain.

[Airjordi]

Thank you! The last few were really helpful replies!

In case I decided to go for 50m (will be enough for like 80% of anchorages) of 10mm chain and the biggest size anchor that fits the bow plus, say, 2x20m 10mm chain that I could "easily" move around and store in the back or in the bilge:

What connections between the chain sections would you recommend? It would have to be something really dependable and durable as it will spend a lot of time in the water. Especially the link between anchor and the first part of the chain. (If I could easily separate the anchor, that would be another 35 or so kg saved in the bow for longer passages).

Also; are these connections going to pass through the windlass or would they have to be handled manually around the windlass?

I don't think a no-windlass or partly rope solution is an option for me. I'll be on the boat alone most of the time and I'd be able the leave an anchorage quick if needed.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Airjordi

Thank you! The last few were really helpful replies!

In case I decided to go for 50m (will be enough for like 80% of anchorages) of 10mm chain and the biggest size anchor that fits the bow plus, say, 2x20m 10mm chain that I could "easily" move around and store in the back or in the bilge:

Airjordi, I don't think this is a silly idea, but you need to be aware of drawbacks. Despite modern forecasts, severe weather does sometimes arrive with no warning. It is easy to sit in front of the computer and contemplate retrieving 40m of chain from the bilge. The reality can be different. In very strong wind at anchor you need one hand just to hang on when moving forward and the movement can be best described as crawling rather than walking. For some unknown reason, unexpected strong wind will always arrive at 2am . Of course, often you will have plenty of warning when the extra chain will be needed, but don't count on this.

Before modern windlasses and anchoring gear, our forefathers managed, but one of the joys of a modern cruising boat is effective, safe anchoring gear that can be deployed with just the push of a button. These days there is no need to muck about, in the vast majority of situations, with connecting extra chain or deploying extra anchors. As well as the obvious convenience, such a set up also has a very positive effect on safety because it will be used everyday rather than trying to anticipate those occasions when it is vital.

Ovnis are great boats and built for cruising so there is really no need to accept on a new boat like this a poor anchoring solution. I would give some consideration to G7 chain. The extra cost (both in initial price and more frequent replacement) will not be significant in overall price and when a storm unexpectedly arrives it will be money well spent. I would not recomend G7 chain to all boats, but I think it would be a good solution in your case.

Anyway, just my 2c. Commissioning a new boat involves many decisions and hopefully an alternative viewpoint is helpful even if you decide differently. Either way, you will end up with a great boat.

[groundtackle]

Noelex, all excellent comments and suggestions you've provided. AirJ and others are appreciative.

We don't need an endorsement from you but one day I'd like you to tell of its actual existence.
"The very best general purpose anchors in my view are the Mantus, Rocna, steel Spade and the Manson Supreme."

One day..
Chris

[wrwakefield]

Airjordi,

We went through the same ground tackle exercise when we acquired our Nauticat 43. [17 ton displacement empty; 22+ ton fully laden for cruising- measured.]

It needed a new windlass, anchor chain, and primary bower. Since we are playing in higher latitudes we deal with deep anchorages more often than not. Therefore I wanted as much chain as would be practical in our chain locker. I bought a barrel [550 ft] of 5/16 in. G43 chain after installing the new windlass [which has dual chain gypsies; one on each side...] My first experiment was to determine how much chain would free fall into each side of the anchor locker [it is unequally divided in half...] vs. how much would fit if I flaked it into the locker as it ran in from the windlass [using a boat pole from deck level...]

About two-thirds of the barrel would free-fall into the two locker sides [~350 ft.] ; The entire barrel fit easily when flaked [550 ft.] We went with the entire barrel...

So we now have two bowers [80 lb. SuperMAX, and 99 lb. Spade] with 550 ft of chain between them, and all is easily managed by the Lighthouse 1501 windlass [which can handle both bowers simultaneously if necessary...] The boat doesn't notice, and we always sleep really well...

If you are interested, here is the link to the details about our ground tackle which includes links to our windlass project as well as numerous other related [and qualified] resources.

Best wishes with your new boat!

Cheers! Bill

[kas_1611]

Airjordi,

Nice boat first of all and I hope you have many enjoyable adventures on her.

I have a 40ft Bavaria which weighs a lot less than yours but the original Delta dragged a few times or wouldn't set so I upgraded. Going with the "Go Big or Go Home" principle I went big. From a 16kg Delta to a 33kg Vulcan!!

I also swapped out the standard 50m of 8mm chain which I could not determine grade of so assumed it was cr*p and replaced it with 60m of 8mm G70 spliced to 45m of 16mm Octoplait (from Jimmy Green in Devon). 60m of chain at 4:1 means 13m water depth, the extra 45m of Octoplait allows me to anchor in deeper bays in amiable conditions or let out a lot more in a blow, at 5:1 with it all out that's nearly 25m water depth or about 9:1 in 10m of water.

Last year we anchored in a sheltered bay on Lastovo, Croatia, next to a 45ft Ovni who was hanging off a 25kg rollbar Rocna. He was impressed with our Vulcan and we both sat safely while 25kts blew through the bay. Watching many other boats with small anchors head backwards at various rates of knots. He'd said he had 50m of 10m originally but had swapped to 100m of 8mm. After the blow we dived on our anchors to find them both dug in completely with only the end of the chains visible.

I suppose the moral of this tale is don't compromise on your ground tackle. It is all that stands between you and the rocks at the end of the day. I work on the KISS principle so I would suggest enough chain to anchor in 10-15m plus enough extra to scope out to 7:1+. Don't mess around with adding extra sections of chain in a blow as you put yourself at unnecessary risk, have it all there at the push of a button and don't forget the snubber/bridle.

Hope this helps
Fair Winds and Following Seas

Keiron

[Airjordi]

Thank you again for your thoughts.

I just knew galvanized chain and stainless chain. I wasn't aware about G4 or G7 chain.

So the consensus ist: galvanized over stainless and then:

G7 if I wanted stronger chain which would allow me to use a longer chain for a given weight. Drawbacks of G7 are higher price, faster ageing and that it needs special gipsies. Is that about correct.

Where would I get such a G7 chain?

Thanks,
Florian

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Airjordi

Drawbacks of G7 are higher price, faster ageing and that it needs special gipsies. Is that about correct.

Where would I get such a G7 chain?

G7 (or G70) metric chain has the same dimensions as conventional chain. So the same gypsies will work, but the idea is to take advantage of the higher strength by reducing the chain diameter.

So instead of 10mm conventional (G30 or G40) supplied by the factory you switch to 8mm G70 chain. The strength is about the same, but the weight of the 8mm G70 is significantly less because the chain is thinner. Unfortunately, the gypsy on the windlass supplied by Ovni will be made to match the supplied 10mm chain. This is unlikely to work with 8mm chain. So you will need to purchase an 8mm gypsy for the windlass. Or convince Ovni to supply the windlass with a 8mm rather than a 10mm gypsy.

It is easy to swap the gypsies, but they are surprisingly expensive and the part will need to be ordered. Check before ordering the chain that an 8mm gypsy is available for the particular windlass supplied.

The Major European supplier for G70 is the Italian supplier Maggi. You can order direct from the factory and they will ship to most European countries. Alternatively, you may be able to find a local dealer in France. There is one in UK (Jimmy Green), but the chain is likely to cheaper when ordered direct from Italy rather than the UK.

Maggi seem to have a poor record of delivering chain on time so order it well before it is needed if ordering direct from the factory.

[kas_1611]

Airjordi,

You shouldn't need a different gypsy for G70 chain unless it is a different size ie: 8mm instead of 10mm, but you would need a different gypsy anyway if you changed size. My old 8mm and my new 8mm G70 are identical as both were DIN standard so same gypsy.

I bought my G70 chain from Jimmy Green Marine in Devon who delivered it with the anchor on a pallet with the chain in 4 bags for ease of handling. They will deliver to anywhere in mainland EU but it will cost a few £/€/$/CHF.

Keiron

[Airjordi]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

G7 (or G70) metric chain has the same dimensions as conventional chain. So the same gypsies will work, but the idea is to take advantage of the higher strength by reducing the chain diameter.

So instead of 10mm conventional (G30 or G40) supplied by the factory you switch to 8mm G70 chain. The strength is about the same, but the weight of the 8mm G70 is significantly less because the chain is thinner. Unfortunately, the gypsy on the windlass supplied by Ovni will be made to match the supplied 10mm chain. This is unlikely to work with 8mm chain. So you will need to purchase an 8mm gypsy for the windlass. Or convince Ovni to supply the windlass with a 8mm rather than a 10mm gypsy.

It is easy to swap the gypsies, but they are surprisingly expensive and the part will need to be ordered. Check before ordering the chain that an 8mm gypsy is available for the particular windlass supplied.

The Major European supplier for G70 is the Italian supplier Maggi. You can order direct from the factory and they will ship to most European countries. Alternatively, you may be able to find a local dealer in France. There is one in UK (Jimmy Green), but the chain is likely to cheaper when ordered direct from Italy rather than the UK.

Maggi seem to have a poor record of delivering chain on time so order it well before it is needed if ordering direct from the factory.

Perfect, thank you!!

[Smokeys Kitchen]

+1 on the 8mm stronger chain like G43 or G70 instead of 10mm and using the extra weight on upsizing to a larger, new generation anchor.

Also +1 for the 80 to 100 meters of chain. We currently (cruising Alaska) have 65 meters of chain and I think a half barrel (275 ft ~ 82 meters) would be optimal. We have it backed up by 50 meters of 19mm 8 plait.

I didn't read if this was specifically addressed, but a 1000w windlass sounds like it might be a bit small for addressing what you plan to do. I'd consider going with a 1500w minimum. There are lots of good options out there.

Just my 2 cents

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

+1 on the 8mm stronger chain like G43 or G70 instead of 10mm and using the extra weight on upsizing to a larger, new generation anchor.

Also +1 for the 80 to 100 meters of chain. We currently (cruising Alaska) have 65 meters of chain and I think a half barrel (275 ft ~ 82 meters) would be optimal. We have it backed up by 50 meters of 19mm 8 plait.

I didn't read if this was specifically addressed, but a 1000w windlass sounds like it might be a bit small for addressing what you plan to do. I'd consider going with a 1500w minimum. There are lots of good options out there.

Just my 2 cents

If the boat is set up for a 1000 watt windlass then the cable and breakers will be sized appropriately which may require changing. Not all 1000 watt windlass are created equal. Alot of the power comes from gearing. We have a friend on a similar boat and their windlass is a few hundred watts lower than ours but he not only retrieves a little bit faster, he also lifts more, doesnt make sense but thats just the way it is.Personally I think a 1000 watts should be adequate for a 40 foot boat.

[Spade Anchor]

All the underwater test videos wrapped up together. 38 minutes in is the results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0

[s/v Moondancer]

In the Caribbean we never anchored in more than 50 ft of water but in some Pacific Islands, Tonga and French Polynesia we anchored in 100 ft.

I would go with 100m of G7 and the heaviest Rocna you can stow on the roller. We had to modify our roller to get a Rocna 55 to stow.