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Old 12-06-2014, 17:34   #61
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
WOW Stu, fear mongering isn't really helpful. I'm suprised you have a Catalina if you think only the best will do, or maybe you just don't know any better. The Delta is very close in performance to the second generation anchors in all the unbiased tests I have seen. I have used one thousands of nights without incident and I can assure you so have a lot of others.
Aw..BS. Really. I used to use a small Danforth on our Catalina 22. Time to bash ALL Catalinas? Hardly.

If you'd bothered to read my repeated Anchoring SYSTEM links, you'd see that I do not promote one anchor over another.

All I have ever suggested are three things:

1. Size your anchoring SYSTEM for your intended use

2. Don't bother with old technology (I was probably the last guy within 30 miles of Silicon Valley running Windows 3.0 on a 1992 laptop!!!)

3. Do your homework and research (links provided - and the links clearly show the differences between old gen and new gen)


I'm glad your anchor works for you (see #1 above).

I find your post offensive.

Happy anchoring to all.
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Old 12-06-2014, 17:54   #62
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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There is a huge difference between a Bruce and a "Bruce" ie. a copy. The copies do not work well. The original does, but, whatever, we like ours, it's proven itself, we sleep well.

Hum, my cheap $65 discontinued bruce copy seems to have practically the same dimensions as a real Bruce. Its not forged no, and yes I would love a real Bruce, but my funds are rather limited.

Despite dire warnings that my anchor can't possibly hold a dinghy, It has held firm in 40 knots,with gusts to 50 ish knots, even though the boat was bouncing with the waves.

I sleep well at 30 knots and below, Though above 30, I'll be up and down in the night. Why are the winds strongest at night???.

The new generation anchors are just out of my price range. I'm waiting for the next generation after the new generation anchors . Those will be much better then the current new anchors.
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Old 12-06-2014, 18:27   #63
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

Love my Rocna, allows me to sleep better at night. Holds fantastic in the Florida and Bahamas sand. Fortress as your secondary anchor. All chain and you are set.
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Old 12-06-2014, 19:19   #64
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

in spite of my love for my 45lb manson and 3/8" all chain rode, i'll admit that sometimes you just never know.

my 66lb bruce dragged all over the bahamas; i finally changed it out for the 45lb cqr i had as a spare. worked everywhere. at the same time, our cruising friends were anchoring their 45 foot bob perry cutter, which probably weighed 35000 lbs, with the same 66 lb bruce and all chain and never had a problem. go figure.
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Old 12-06-2014, 19:41   #65
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

There are places in the Bahamas that have a thin layer of sand on top of hard plate. Nothing will hold well there. In good holding ground anything will work well. Then there is the in between.
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Old 12-06-2014, 20:31   #66
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

The latest posts have hit one of the salient points of the anchor wars--most of the data is anecdotal. Just because your anchor held you in 50 knots doesn't mean that its as good in poor holding at 15 knots, or will hold in a wind against tide situation. Sometimes you are just lucky with a lousy anchor, and sometimes you are just unlucky with a good anchor. You need to listen to the people who spend multiple years at anchor and who have dragged often enough to know the difference between a good anchor and a lousy anchor in a given situation.

I've dragged or rescued enough dragging boats with Danforth's, Bruces, Deltas, CQR's, Buegels, and Fortresses to know that the new generation anchors are a significant improvement as a best bower. I'm familiar with the Rocna, Manson Supreme, and Spade, and can recommend a BIB size for these types. Copies of these successful anchors might be relied on, by I have no personal knowledge of them.

For the budget minded, I know of genuine CQR's and Bruces that have been sold cheaply--they weren't worth taking up space on my boats, because I like to sleep at night. Of course there are conditions which warrant standing an anchor watch, even with an over-sized modern anchor.
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Old 12-06-2014, 21:11   #67
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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new boat owner, about to splash her in a month or so - headed from NC to the Caribbean.

am sure this is not the way to go about kitting out one's boat, but I know nothing, and you all know everything... so just choose.

please.



I bet you are still exhausted choosing which anchor
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Old 13-06-2014, 05:52   #68
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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I've dragged or rescued enough dragging boats with Danforth's, Bruces, Deltas, CQR's, Buegels, and Fortresses to know that the new generation anchors are a significant improvement as a best bower.
Depends completely on the bottom conditions. After 3 days of extensive and preliminary holding power tests in the soft mud bottoms of the Chesapeake Bay aboard an 81-ft research vessel in late May, it became crystal clear that the new generation anchors were designed for harder soils, and not soft mud.

Bob Taylor, a retired US Navy anchor design and soil mechanics expert who served as a consultant for us on this project, was not surprised by the results, as he stated that anchors designed for harder soils will typically have a holding ratio (holding power divided by anchor weight) of 10-15, which is almost exactly what we found for the 44-46 lbs new generation anchors that we tested.

The 45 lb CQR did better, with a holding ratio of about 20, as it clearly had a better trajectory and higher effective fluke angle when being pulled into this common soft mud type of bottom.

I would also expect that a non-roll bar anchor might perform better in less common grass, weeds, or rocks, given that it does not have the roll bar which could impede penetration.

We are planning on conducting the next series of tests with the boating media present for independent review, verification, and reporting of the results in late July.

Safe anchoring,
Brian
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Old 13-06-2014, 05:57   #69
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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We are planning on conducting the next series of tests with the boating media present for independent review, verification, and reporting of the results in late July.

Safe anchoring,
Brian
Ah yes Brian, but will you have self appointed forum experts to review your work, they are the key arbiters of truth in the brave new world.

Disclaimer, I own a fortress anchor, wouldn't have a boat without a good convex anchor and a good fortress as the primary anchor set of gear .
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Old 13-06-2014, 07:18   #70
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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Ah yes Brian, but will you have self appointed forum experts to review your work, they are the key arbiters of truth in the brave new world.

Disclaimer, I own a fortress anchor, wouldn't have a boat without a good convex anchor and a good fortress as the primary anchor set of gear .

I need to confess I found Your post to be not funny.
Not first, not last probably.
Inflammatory just for the sake of inflamming - in my view at least.
By the way - most of the people here are in agreement that the Fortress anchor is avery good choice as a part of basic anchor gear set for boat.
Didn't You notice?

Hmmm.... Good convex anchor...?... Do You know any beside the Excel?
Just trying to remember one really good convex... Except Excel, of course...

My very best regards

Tomasz
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Old 13-06-2014, 08:44   #71
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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Ah yes Brian, but will you have self appointed forum experts to review your work, they are the key arbiters of truth in the brave new world.
.
Yup, always wrong but never in doubt.
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Old 13-06-2014, 09:12   #72
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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Ah yes Brian, but will you have self appointed forum experts to review your work, they are the key arbiters of truth in the brave new world.

Disclaimer, I own a fortress anchor, wouldn't have a boat without a good convex anchor and a good fortress as the primary anchor set of gear .
I know you were making a joke (I snickered), but maybe that isn't such a silly idea. There are a couple of people around who are respected by all. Part of the problem with anchor tests is that they are never carried out by an unbiased person. Fortress isn't unbiased and the sailing magazines aren't either.

I would nominate Mainesail or Evans Starzinger as two people who are scientifically minded and well enough known in the sailing world that people would listen if they said they thought it was a fair test.

Also, Practical Sailor is well regarded as unbiased since they don't have advertisers, but they often don't have the budget to do large tests. It would be interesting to have them along.
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Old 13-06-2014, 10:12   #73
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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I would nominate Mainesail or Evans Starzinger as two people who are scientifically minded and well enough known in the sailing world that people would listen if they said they thought it was a fair test.

Also, Practical Sailor is well regarded as unbiased since they don't have advertisers, but they often don't have the budget to do large tests. It would be interesting to have them along.
I agree completely, and Practical Sailor will definitely be invited. I have floated out the idea of also inviting key forum people (Mainesail immediately came to mind) and hopefully I will be able to extend an invitation to them as well.
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Old 13-06-2014, 10:39   #74
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

This link, provided on page one of this thread, IS Maine Sail's contribution:

Why NEW GEN Anchors are Better:

Anchors & TEST Results of New Generation Anchors EXCELLENT & Important
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Old 13-06-2014, 15:23   #75
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Re: Will Someone just Choose an Anchor for me? I'm Exhausted.

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Originally Posted by Fortress View Post
Depends completely on the bottom conditions. After 3 days of extensive and preliminary holding power tests in the soft mud bottoms of the Chesapeake Bay aboard an 81-ft research vessel in late May, it became crystal clear that the new generation anchors were designed for harder soils, and not soft mud.

Bob Taylor, a retired US Navy anchor design and soil mechanics expert who served as a consultant for us on this project, was not surprised by the results, as he stated that anchors designed for harder soils will typically have a holding ratio (holding power divided by anchor weight) of 10-15, which is almost exactly what we found for the 44-46 lbs new generation anchors that we tested.

The 45 lb CQR did better, with a holding ratio of about 20, as it clearly had a better trajectory and higher effective fluke angle when being pulled into this common soft mud type of bottom.

I would also expect that a non-roll bar anchor might perform better in less common grass, weeds, or rocks, given that it does not have the roll bar which could impede penetration.

We are planning on conducting the next series of tests with the boating media present for independent review, verification, and reporting of the results in late July.

Safe anchoring,
Brian
Brian,

I hope that your next series of tests will be more realistic than just a straight-line pull. I think you missed my point that the best bower should be an all-round anchor, for hard sand, soft mud, weed, and shifting wind/tide. Even with a modern anchor, I have had to resort to setting a second anchor in some conditions, and it is usually a Danforth HT or a Fortress--both are great straight-line, soft bottom anchors, but not what I would call a great all-round anchor.
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