Why Are Next-Gen Anchors Considered 'Better' ?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Maybe the concept of one and one only primary anchor is what should be abandoned. By all means, have a "preferred" anchor, old or new, but have a backup that is best (and probably of a contrasting design) in holding and weather conditions where the "preferred" anchor tends to do less well.

My boat (1970 - albeit class started in early 60's) was built to Lloyds 100A1 specifications. and that included requirement for TWO anchors - as pre-bowrollers becoming universal, chocks fitted port and starboard on the bow for a couple of CQRs. Nothing "new" about having more than one anchor.

In my case I have removed one set of chocks (boat only came with one Anchor fitted anyway) - in anticipation of me later fitting a bowroller (and a bowsprit? ).......not yet decided whether to carry a second anchor on the bow - but figured 3 on the bow a bit excessive.......and one less thing to stub me toes on

[Kettlewell]

I'm not so sure the active coastal cruiser sees less severe conditions than many typical world cruisers. Sure, as Evans has pointed out if you are going to Patagonia you will encounter some unusual bottom conditions and difficult anchoring, but most world cruisers follow the well-worn "milk run" paths around the world. I have spoken to many of these folks who said they never saw anything on their trip that was worse weatherwise than they have seen in their home waters, and the same goes for anchoring. Those who started out from New England often comment that the waters they learned on were the most difficult they saw on the entire voyage. The worst wind I have ever been in was in the Chesapeake when I think we were hit by a tornado, and I have seen terrible holding ground in places like Newport (old tires and bicycles, and the occasional boot), Key West (thin, hard sand), or Maine (rocks and weed). I've been through hurricanes at anchor on Long Island and in Massachusetts. If I was sailing around the world I would make sure that I was nowhere near a hurricane area during hurricane season. Similarly, I try to read up on the places I'm going and I choose harbors that are well sheltered with good holding ground whenever possible. I suppose if you don't leave one particular area with uniform bottom conditions you can be happy with one primary anchor that suits those conditions, but most cruisers who do any traveling at all will want a couple of anchors of various types for various conditions.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I'm not so sure the active coastal cruiser sees less severe conditions than many typical world cruisers. . . . if you are going to Patagonia you will encounter some unusual bottom conditions and difficult anchoring.

I agree with this. If you stay in the tropics and mid-latitudes you are just as likely to get bad weather 'actively cruising' (eg multi-days away from marina) in your home waters as 'world cruising.'

However, if you go to Patagonia or beyond you will probably see worse weather.

cruisers who do any traveling at all will want a couple of anchors of various types for various conditions.

There is some logic to this, but the plain fact is that most (but of course certainly not all) experienced world cruisers settle in on using one rather oversized anchor for almost all bottoms. Sure they will have a kedge anchor and probably a couple assorted others, but day in and out they will use the one main big bow anchor, sized big enough to cover any faults it may have.

Yes, there are some 'two anchors out' types and also some 'different anchors for different bottoms' types, but the further you get away the fewer of these you find. Just factually and empirically the vast majority of the experienced guys use one really big anchor of whatever design.

I am not suggesting what is the right or best approach. You can make good arguments for the other schools of thought (and I know K has had good experience with the 2 anchor approach). But it's just a fact that for whatever practical reasons most long termers convert to the single big anchor school.

I will speculate why this is . . . if you take two anchors of different designs and combine their weight into one anchor, you typically now have an anchor that in good bottoms has twice the holding of either of the two smaller ones, and is now big enough it will work in almost any 'bad' bottom no matter what the design (if it's one of the major accepted types), and you don't have to fiddle around with trying to determine the bottom and swapping anchors. So for the same total weight you have a multi-bottom anchor with twice the holding power in good bottoms and no pre-anchoring fiddling - just let the thing go.

.....

[serenity 3]

reciently i found myself asking the same questions i went to u-tube and typed in rocna anchors wow lots of good info..

[Kettlewell]

...no pre-anchoring fiddling - just let the thing go.

Yep, that seems to be the current anchoring philosophy--get something really huge and back it up with lots of heavy chain. It's why even the "Next-Gen" anchor folks seem to go much bigger, so it is hard to answer the original question if the new anchors are really better because everyone seems to be using something bigger and heavier. Hard to compare apples to oranges...

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yep, that seems to be the current anchoring philosophy--get something really huge and back it up with lots of heavy chain.

I have the huge anchor part ticked off (I just had it off the boat yesterday, refreshing the chain marks, and gee it is big) but now you are making me feel insecure and thinking I need bigger heavier chain

[downunder]

If you are happy with your current vessels anchor then you have no reason to switch to a new generation anchor.

If however you are outfitting a new vessel or need a new anchor (having lost or current anchor doesn't allow you to sleep) then one would be foolish to not consider the new generation anchors.

Oversize is never a negative for a cruiser however must be matched by an adequate reliable winch.

More vessels are lost/damaged at anchor than another marine event. Convince me otherwise Kettlewell!! That's why it is difficult to oversize an anchor.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I suppose if you don't leave one particular area with uniform bottom conditions you can be happy with one primary anchor that suits those conditions, but most cruisers who do any traveling at all will want a couple of anchors of various types for various conditions.

So one would assume, but it has to be noted that with few exceptions, the "new generation" are being marketed in part on the questionable premise that one and one only anchor is the universal answer.

Most cruisers today, with some dragging moments noted in their logs, might favour prudence and a second or even third anchor...I mean, sometimes you lose the things, after all...but if you purchase a new anchor in part because it's going to save you from having to lug out an old-school design...well, I'm not convinced this is the right course.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I have the huge anchor part ticked off (I just had it off the boat yesterday, refreshing the chain marks, and gee it is big) but now you are making me feel insecure and thinking I need bigger heavier chain

No need to feel inadequate...did you know most male porn stars are between 5' 6" and 5' 9"? That and the right sort of lens will make any ground tackle look massive.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by downunder

If you are happy with your current vessels anchor then you have no reason to switch to a new generation anchor.

If however you are outfitting a new vessel or need a new anchor (having lost or current anchor doesn't allow you to sleep) then one would be foolish to not consider the new generation anchors.

Oversize is never a negative for a cruiser however must be matched by an adequate reliable winch.

More vessels are lost/damaged at anchor than another marine event. Convince me otherwise Kettlewell!! That's why it is difficult to oversize an anchor.

I wonder where that staistic is found?????

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by psneeld

I wonder where that staistic is found?????

Roc#a website?

I would have thought most boats sink on there moorings from...........neglect / poor maintanence.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Roc#a website?

I would have thought most boats sink on there moorings from...........neglect / poor maintanence.

Probably is true...I think the Boat US fondation has similat findings...but that point has less to do with what anchor they are using and I would hope that most "cruisers" aren't in that category of neglect / poor maintanence.

[noelex 77]

I think we have reached the stage , with improved anchor design, where one of the new generation anchors will cope adequately with most bottom types, particularly if slightly oversized.

[Kettlewell]

More vessels are lost/damaged at anchor than another marine event.

I think damage from anchor mishaps is way down the list, even for world cruisers. My guess is that for long distance cruisers the #1 factor in the lost/damaged category would be stupid navigational errors and plain old bad luck in hitting something: hit a reef, hit uncharted object, hit floating junk. That would be followed closely by, or maybe even would be beaten out by electrical fires onboard. Friends of ours lost their boat in the Caribbean when it caught on fire while they were out diving. Another friend woke up in the middle of the night with the boat full of smoke and luckily was able to shut off all power and save the boat. With all the high-amp electrical stuff people have these days, including high-amp wind and solar, plus the great likelihood of things chafing through, coming loose, breaking, or corroding, I'm actually surprised at how few fires we've had, though I can recall twice where it was touch and go whether or not the whole boat caught on fire. Here is a link to some data from BoatUS on insurance claims.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

... one of the new generation anchors will cope adequately with most bottom types, particularly if slightly oversized.

An anchor could only be properly called “oversized”, if a smaller example would do the job intended.