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Old 13-11-2009, 01:09   #196
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Quick note. We are in NZ (hence the kiwi avatar, hint hint ) so by the time you add freight costs buying local will be cheaper. We don't have anything here you probably can't get down the road from where you are for less beer tokens (money).

More than happy to help with questions, start or respond to a thread so everyone can learn is the best idea, but trying to shop with us would be expensive and pointless most of the time.

I'm here just to keep an eye on you lot so you don't get too wayward and learn myself, not to sell stuff.
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Old 13-11-2009, 11:16   #197
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GMac - a huge thank you for taking the time to outline what the "real story" or as we say in the USA "the rest of the story" is about all these certifications, etc. After digesting your excellent explain, I reread the "Cat" post and stumbled over this - >>"It has this from LLoyds, so I would suggest yes.<< That is a very standard type political reply to a direct question. Do not answer the question but "infer" that what the questioner is asking is true. The use of "conditional qualifiers" in the English Language is the stock and trade of Politicians - who never lie, but never tell the whole truth either. Clever marketing, but patently deceptive and as a result taints all the good things that might be said to support of the "worth" of the product. It is sad . . .
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Old 13-11-2009, 12:10   #198
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I'm here just to keep an eye on you lot so you don't get too wayward and learn myself, not to sell stuff.

Do you have any plans to get hold of a Raya and do comparative testing?
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Old 13-11-2009, 12:56   #199
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GMac - a huge thank you for taking the time to outline what the "real story" or as we say in the USA "the rest of the story" is about all these certifications, etc.
It's a bit of a ruffy description but something that most don't know so happy if it helps you.

Quote:
After digesting your excellent explain, I reread the "Cat" post and stumbled over this - >>"It has this from LLoyds, so I would suggest yes.<< That is a very standard type political reply to a direct question. Do not answer the question but "infer" that what the questioner is asking is true. The use of "conditional qualifiers" in the English Language is the stock and trade of Politicians - who never lie, but never tell the whole truth either. Clever marketing, but patently deceptive and as a result taints all the good things that might be said to support of the "worth" of the product. It is sad . . .
Cats reply is common and quite understandable. That's why you see me having swipes at people at times. Cat and the rest of us should have clear clean information on important stuff like this. I did ask Cat, as I have others, that question just to demonstrate what I mean, he answered exactly the same as the rest. But I think by the tone of his reply he picked up it may have been a bit of a loaded question, so I think he's more a clever dude than a politician. Suggesting Cat a polly is a bit of a harsh call there I think O.

Knowing Anchor-right and the rest for that matter to a degree I don't see them deliberately setting out to deceive people but it does come across that way sometimes. Often it's the website builders who don't boat and just don't realise that their desire to promote the product as best they can can make something look like something it's not. AR aren't alone and far from the worst.

Talbot - been there done that.. sort of. Haven't gone head to head but by itself it's looking good. Do like the features and easier to fit to boats than some of the others. Get big area but with less weight than most of the others, that's handy for boats whose gear lives in the bow all the time. Getting some good interest from some very interesting people who know their stuff, very telling I think. More to follow but so far she's a goodie.
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Old 13-11-2009, 13:44   #200
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Talbot - been there done that.. sort of. Haven't gone head to head but by itself it's looking good. Do like the features and easier to fit to boats than some of the others. Get big area but with less weight than most of the others, that's handy for boats whose gear lives in the bow all the time. Getting some good interest from some very interesting people who know their stuff, very telling I think. More to follow but so far she's a goodie.
That was my impression from an analysis of the design features. The best aspect from a catamaran viewpoint is that it is much lighter than anchors that have smaller cross section due to not having any lead in the pointy end. Expensive though.
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Old 13-11-2009, 15:11   #201
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Sorry to cause confusion Cat. I'll try and clarify it better. There is a bit too it so grab a beer and settle in.

Thanks for all that detail on how cert works.
I have been involved in building a few boats (did my time at Lloyds Ships) to survey, some Govt. vessels elsewhere and have been involved in building large s/s pressure vessels about 7m in dia where each component was inspected and had a "crown" stamp from the certifier, so have a reasonable idea how it works and did have to re-do welding tests after x amount of meters of weld, but that was a previous life many moons ago.

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So Mr Cat, if I was you I'd be looking for a commonly referred to good anchor, set it up well and boat happily. Don't buy anything you are not happy about, that is counter productive to sleeping well.

By 'commonly referred to good' I mean people who have boats similar to your will have a bloody good idea if the anchor they use works well or not. Or you could take a punt, may have and are very happy but equally some haven't done quite as well. Personally I would suggest one of the new generations but then I'm not the one asleep on your boat on a shitty nite so don't have to be as happy as you with the choice.
Well that WAS what I was doing with the sarca, using this story here where they used a 7 and I was planning on an 8
Another Tsunami Success Story
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"During the tsunami we were anchored in Nai Harn bay in Phuket along with
about 80 other boats. We were in around 12 metres of water. We stayed there for the whole time during which there were 4 large to very large swells of 5-8 metres with a very strong current particularly on the out flow. At no stage did the boat look like dragging anchor. Many of the other boats went out to sea and quite a few dragged, but we felt totally secure. After using our Sarca for the last 3 years we are very happy with it; it has never let us down."
Jock and Ruth Main
'BACKCHAT' Crowther Deguelo 49 ft. sailing catamaran).
Quote:
Yes I do have my favourite/s for assorted reason but don't think it's fair for me to say so here*. I will say they are from the new generation range though.
As are mine, down to 2, Sarca and Supreme.
Price has a lot to do with it as have a lot of decisions on this build.
Have I picked the "Best" anchors, possibly not but certainly better in my opinion than what I would have previously had (plough) and I can get almost 2 of these new gen anchors for the cost of another's, and I'd prefer 2 anchors

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Fondling an Ultra again today and must say if you are a fan of bling on your bow, you have to suss those. Grade A bling for sure but as they are all stainless they do cost a bit as stainless does. Almost had to have a cold shower are I put it down, as sad as that may sound
Bling, blargh
It lives in the mud.
I don't care what it is or how ugly it looks as long as I am attached.

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And I hope that by now I haven't sent you into a catatonic haze or driven you into alcohol related problems

* - yeah OK, so I'm scared of getting the crap kick out of me by a annoyed manufacturer. I'm way to pretty to die just yet
Not at all, but you have made me think which of my two choices I go for.
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Old 13-11-2009, 15:18   #202
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After digesting your excellent explain, I reread the "Cat" post and stumbled over this - >>"It has this from LLoyds, so I would suggest yes.<< That is a very standard type political reply to a direct question. Do not answer the question but "infer" that what the questioner is asking is true. The use of "conditional qualifiers" in the English Language is the stock and trade of Politicians - who never lie, but never tell the whole truth either. Clever marketing, but patently deceptive and as a result taints all the good things that might be said to support of the "worth" of the product. It is sad . . .
LMAO

I am not a politician nor do I have anything to do with sarca
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Old 13-11-2009, 15:58   #203
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That was my impression from an analysis of the design features. The best aspect from a catamaran viewpoint is that it is much lighter than anchors that have smaller cross section due to not having any lead in the pointy end. Expensive though.
I'd agree with you there. Multis are weight sensitive so any you cab drag off the bow has to be good.

Expensive?? In with the rest really from my workings. Just had a big price increase on one of it's competitors here so the Raya and others are now looking bloody cheap.

Good to see I didn't send Cat off into some nether world screaming and pulling his hair out with all of that It looks as if he's thinking about it all the right way and will come out the end looking good.

I feel his pain in trying to weed through all the marketing. It's getting hard to know just what is and what isn't in these days of the WWW. I'm looking for a composting toilet and some of the claims made are so up there brave it's hard to know if they are right or just marketing.
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Old 13-11-2009, 16:26   #204
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Here's another anchor to add to the mix.

Boat anchors for yachts, jet skis, inflatables, fishing, diving, cruising, sailing, or tinnys and Kayaks boats - Cooper Anchors

The guy who developed them lives just round the corner, he's given me one to evaluate.

looks ok, the one he said would suit my boat seems on the light side compared to what I had thought I would use, but I guess that's the point of a new anchor design.

Something that I think will be appealing is the dinghy anchor - it's going to be made of plastic, so should be safer for inflatables.

Also, the bigger anchors are probably going to be stainless steel, (not polished though) at galvanised steel prices.
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Old 13-11-2009, 17:11   #205
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Something that I think will be appealing is the dinghy anchor - it's going to be made of plastic, so should be safer for inflatables.


.
Nice.
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Old 13-11-2009, 17:13   #206
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GMac.
Thank you for that comprehensive post.
I did have to break to cook and eat dinner with the wife though.

Not a problem.
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Old 13-11-2009, 17:16   #207
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Seen those and quite like a alloy concept.
The brother-in-law has got me one for Xmas so looking forward to having a play with it.

Looks like it should work well.

SS at Galv prices out of Aussie. That would be a big ask wouldn't it?
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Old 30-11-2009, 06:22   #208
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The reason, of course, is because people are generally suckers for a good marketing and sales pitch, and these purportedly 'better' new anchors are really just variations of the same old designs with a 'twist' or two thrown in to separate the gullible from large amounts of cash for the supposed 'latest and greatest'. Generally what happens is after the initial buzz dies down people see that in normal use the anchor is really no better than it's predecessor(s), and so the anchor falls out of favor only to be replaced by the newest 'better' anchor marketing hype bs.

In essence, it's a calculated plan by manufacturers to have boaters part with large amounts of cash for basically a big chunk of metal. Free market genius.
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Old 30-11-2009, 07:27   #209
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The reason, of course, is because people are generally suckers for a good marketing and sales pitch, and these purportedly 'better' new anchors are really just variations of the same old designs with a 'twist' or two thrown in to separate the gullible from large amounts of cash for the supposed 'latest and greatest'. Generally what happens is after the initial buzz dies down people see that in normal use the anchor is really no better than it's predecessor(s), and so the anchor falls out of favor only to be replaced by the newest 'better' anchor marketing hype bs.

In essence, it's a calculated plan by manufacturers to have boaters part with large amounts of cash for basically a big chunk of metal. Free market genius.
You seem to see a pattern in this. If this is a pattern that would suggest a past history of the same thing happening. I am not new to boating but may not have your experience. Can you refresh my memory of what anchors were part of the last wave of anchors that became popular for being better then the current group but then didn't work out to be any better then the previous generation and fell out of favor?

I remember something about a "Max" anchor or something like that that was popular in the early 90's or so (maybe earlier) but that is the only one I can remember. What were some of the other ones?

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 30-11-2009, 08:14   #210
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You seem to see a pattern in this. If this is a pattern that would suggest a past history of the same thing happening. I am not new to boating but may not have your experience. Can you refresh my memory of what anchors were part of the last wave of anchors that became popular for being better then the current group but then didn't work out to be any better then the previous generation and fell out of favor?

I remember something about a &quot;Max&quot; anchor or something like that that was popular in the early 90's or so (maybe earlier) but that is the only one I can remember. What were some of the other ones?

Thanks,

Jim
The 'Rocna', for example, is simply a variation of a plow anchor (a plow anchor with a half-circle bar attached to the top), as is the 'Manson Supreme' (a plow anchor with the middle of the plow blade removed). These examples (of rebadged old designs) are not anomalies either.
Are you saying that you don't see this? Or are you saying that you buy into the idea foisted by the marketers that by taking a plow anchor and welding a circular bar on top of it (or cutting out the middle of the plow blade) and then recommending that buyers go heavier than their previous style of anchor, that the large amount of money being charged is actually purchasing a 'better' anchor? Because what I see is a shiny chunk of expensive metal that will do the same job as a hunk of jagged concrete and a long length of heavy chain.
Now, if an anchor is being marketed that has the holding power of a 50lb anchor in a 5lb anchor size, then they may actually have something 'better'. Until such time, however, its just snake oil. In other words, 'sailingharry' nailed it way way back in post #6.
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