Which way round should the shackle be?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

That's for 100 percent straight pull which often does not happen at anchor.

Well.... it still would be better but in my experience straight pull is probably 98% of the time. The only time it's not is during a wind shift, then straight pull again.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Here's a crude drawing showing why it matters. Contact surfaces are much better one way.
However, I must say, I always use a big galvanized shackle at the anchor anyway then the SS one myself.

That would have to be a tiny shackle to fit through the chain in your drawing.

[sparrowhawk1]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Well.... it still would be better but in my experience straight pull is probably 98% of the time. The only time it's not is during a wind shift, then straight pull again.

I disagree I've been on many boats that sail at anchor when the wind is strong. I've also done a lotta research. All the experts say the pin should go through the anchor chain.

[DoubleWhisky]

Which way round should the shackle be?



OR


How many devils can seat together in the eye of the needle?

By CF invitation only!

[sparrowhawk1]

Originally Posted by Guy

That would have to be a tiny shackle to fit through the chain in your drawing.

I can't believe I didn't point that out. Got focused on shear stress. Also that's why you need two shackles to attach two sections of chain together so the shackle can be the next size up

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

I can't believe I didn't point that out. Got focused on shear stress. That's why you need two shackles to attach two sections of chain together so the shackle can be the next size up

You need to think this through, maybe go out to your boat and try putting one through. simply rotate the shackle and thread it thru the chain. This is not conjecture, it is how I've done it for 30 years.

[sparrowhawk1]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

You need to think this through, maybe go out to your boat and try putting one through. simply rotate the shackle and thread it thru the chain. This is not conjecture, it is how I've done it for 30 years.

I have three eighths chain with a 7/16 inch shackle, it will NOT fit as proposed. And the pin is snug in the chain link.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

I have three eighths chain with a 7/8 inch shackle, it will NOT fit as proposed. And the pin is snug in the chain link.

Uhhh... I think we were talking SS high strength shackles here of a specific size... of course you need to use the appropriate size.... you must have some pretty big chain for a 7/8 pin to fit?

[sparrowhawk1]

Mistake I edited it

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Well.... it still would be better but in my experience straight pull is probably 98% of the time. The only time it's not is during a wind shift, then straight pull again.

I'd suggest putting a buoy on your anchor and see how often your anchor is dead ahead of your bow. Most of the time the anchor is 'off centre', your yacht is constantly veering. The average wind direction might not change but I have never been in an anchorage where the wind does not veer from side to side. Every time it veers it allows the chain to pull at a new angle, the anchor might re-align but 30 seconds later it needs to re-align again. Each time it realigns YOUR pin is point loaded and to one side. Every shackle maker stresses that the pin should be loaded centrally, which is why bow, anchor, shackles have a very short gap between the eyes - they are lifting shackles and the short pin better allows the load to be central. This goes for chain also and some put washers to ensure the chain stays centrally. Because the load is off centre on the pin there is every chance the end of the shank is imposing near one eye of the shackle - which is probably its weakest point. Shackles fail at the eye, not pin, not bow (unless the pin falls out - but that's a different issue).

Jonathan

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Here's a crude drawing showing why it matters. Contact surfaces are much better one way.
However, I must say, I always use a big galvanized shackle at the anchor anyway then the SS one myself.

I think some of you guys are overanalyzing what some yacht anchor manufacturers are doing for marketing hype or specific yacht bow roller purposes and ignoring what the heavy commercial guys have been doing and testing for many decades.

Cheechacko’s sketch of surface areas illustrates exactly why it should be shackle pin to shank head and if you study the many photos, a full diameter pin seems to be recommended by the classification societies.

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=c...w=1366&bih=681

A 2nd joining shackle or joining link for studded chain shots is also common.
The most important issue is to always inspect your connecting links after a difficult anchor retrieval event.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=JonJo;1529054]I'd suggest putting a buoy on your anchor and see how often your anchor is dead ahead of your bow. Most of the time the anchor is 'off centre', your yacht is constantly veering. The average wind direction might not change but I have never been in an anchorage where the wind does not veer from side to side. Every time it veers it allows the chain to pull at a new angle, the anchor might re-align but 30 seconds later it needs to re-align again. Each time it realigns YOUR pin is point loaded and to one side. Every shackle maker stresses that the pin should be loaded centrally, which is why bow, anchor, shackles have a very short gap between the eyes - they are lifting shackles and the short pin better allows the load to be central. This goes for chain also and some put washers to ensure the chain stays centrally. Because the load is off centre on the pin there is every chance the end of the shank is imposing near one eye of the shackle - which is probably its weakest point. Shackles fail at the eye, not pin, not bow (unless the pin falls out - but that's a different issue).


If your chain is working back and forth at the shackle, you are in trouble. If I don't have at least 50' of chain on the bottom doing pretty much nothing, I need more chain out. Depending on just the anchor to keep you secure is risky. I have watched our Rocna drag with 50' of chain in 15'. The chain will actually lift the shank.
I'm not talking about big wind shifts where the the anchor needs to re-set but a pull in pretty much the same direction.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by No Ice

So ive bought my Rocna 40 KG galvanised anchor and i am connecting it to my 10mm galvanised chain, does the pin of the Wichard stainless 12mm shackle go through the chain or the anchor??

Brian

Shackle Pin should go through the chain link, so when the chain starts to turn with wind or current for a reset you will not be prying the shackle open on a side pull.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1174022

[JonJo]

[QUOTE=Guy;1529100]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I'd suggest putting a buoy on your anchor and see how often your anchor is dead ahead of your bow. Most of the time the anchor is 'off centre', your yacht is constantly veering. The average wind direction might not change but I have never been in an anchorage where the wind does not veer from side to side. Every time it veers it allows the chain to pull at a new angle, the anchor might re-align but 30 seconds later it needs to re-align again. Each time it realigns YOUR pin is point loaded and to one side. Every shackle maker stresses that the pin should be loaded centrally, which is why bow, anchor, shackles have a very short gap between the eyes - they are lifting shackles and the short pin better allows the load to be central. This goes for chain also and some put washers to ensure the chain stays centrally. Because the load is off centre on the pin there is every chance the end of the shank is imposing near one eye of the shackle - which is probably its weakest point. Shackles fail at the eye, not pin, not bow (unless the pin falls out - but that's a different issue).


If your chain is working back and forth at the shackle, you are in trouble. If I don't have at least 50' of chain on the bottom doing pretty much nothing, I need more chain out. Depending on just the anchor to keep you secure is risky. I have watched our Rocna drag with 50' of chain in 15'. The chain will actually lift the shank.
I'm not talking about big wind shifts where the the anchor needs to re-set but a pull in pretty much the same direction.

In a normal anchorage where you have had to allow for tide and in a normal yacht carrying 150'-300' of a recommended sized chain then: Above about 20/25 knots all of your chain is off the bottom. Once you get to 35-40 knots your chain is a straight as a laser beam (or almost).

We did the tests: at 5:1 scope with 90' of 5/16th chain it takes a load of 180lb (that's about the load a fit 40/50 year old can exert, at least momentarily) in air so maybe 160lb in water to lift all the chain off the ground. Obviously you could deploy all 300' and the situation improves but often you do not have room. You can have bigger chain but a 40' yacht with 300' of half inch chain in the bow is going to sail like a real dog.

Jonathan

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Shackle Pin should go through the chain link, so when the chain starts to turn with wind or current for a reset you will not be prying the shackle open on a side pull.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1174022

Over-size/strength shackle with an attachment loose enough to act a bit like a swivel.