Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-04-2014, 09:01   #31
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 23,680
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
That's for 100 percent straight pull which often does not happen at anchor.
Well.... it still would be better but in my experience straight pull is probably 98% of the time. The only time it's not is during a wind shift, then straight pull again.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:04   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 5,565
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Here's a crude drawing showing why it matters. Contact surfaces are much better one way.
However, I must say, I always use a big galvanized shackle at the anchor anyway then the SS one myself.
That would have to be a tiny shackle to fit through the chain in your drawing.
model 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:06   #33
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post

Well.... it still would be better but in my experience straight pull is probably 98% of the time. The only time it's not is during a wind shift, then straight pull again.
I disagree I've been on many boats that sail at anchor when the wind is strong. I've also done a lotta research. All the experts say the pin should go through the anchor chain.
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:07   #34
Moderator
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?


Which way round should the shackle be?




OR


How many devils can seat together in the eye of the needle?


By CF invitation only!
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:08   #35
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post

That would have to be a tiny shackle to fit through the chain in your drawing.
I can't believe I didn't point that out. Got focused on shear stress. Also that's why you need two shackles to attach two sections of chain together so the shackle can be the next size up
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:18   #36
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 23,680
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
I can't believe I didn't point that out. Got focused on shear stress. That's why you need two shackles to attach two sections of chain together so the shackle can be the next size up
You need to think this through, maybe go out to your boat and try putting one through. simply rotate the shackle and thread it thru the chain. This is not conjecture, it is how I've done it for 30 years.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:23   #37
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post

You need to think this through, maybe go out to your boat and try putting one through. simply rotate the shackle and thread it thru the chain. This is not conjecture, it is how I've done it for 30 years.
I have three eighths chain with a 7/16 inch shackle, it will NOT fit as proposed. And the pin is snug in the chain link.
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:26   #38
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 23,680
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
I have three eighths chain with a 7/8 inch shackle, it will NOT fit as proposed. And the pin is snug in the chain link.
Uhhh... I think we were talking SS high strength shackles here of a specific size... of course you need to use the appropriate size.... you must have some pretty big chain for a 7/8 pin to fit?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 09:27   #39
Registered User
 
sparrowhawk1's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Miami Beach Fl
Boat: Colombia Cc 11.8
Posts: 1,729
Mistake I edited it
sparrowhawk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 15:58   #40
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pittwater, Sydney
Boat: Lightwave, Catamaran, 11.5m (38')
Posts: 1,000
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Well.... it still would be better but in my experience straight pull is probably 98% of the time. The only time it's not is during a wind shift, then straight pull again.
I'd suggest putting a buoy on your anchor and see how often your anchor is dead ahead of your bow. Most of the time the anchor is 'off centre', your yacht is constantly veering. The average wind direction might not change but I have never been in an anchorage where the wind does not veer from side to side. Every time it veers it allows the chain to pull at a new angle, the anchor might re-align but 30 seconds later it needs to re-align again. Each time it realigns YOUR pin is point loaded and to one side. Every shackle maker stresses that the pin should be loaded centrally, which is why bow, anchor, shackles have a very short gap between the eyes - they are lifting shackles and the short pin better allows the load to be central. This goes for chain also and some put washers to ensure the chain stays centrally. Because the load is off centre on the pin there is every chance the end of the shank is imposing near one eye of the shackle - which is probably its weakest point. Shackles fail at the eye, not pin, not bow (unless the pin falls out - but that's a different issue).

Jonathan
JonJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 17:09   #41
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 9,774
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Here's a crude drawing showing why it matters. Contact surfaces are much better one way.
However, I must say, I always use a big galvanized shackle at the anchor anyway then the SS one myself.
I think some of you guys are overanalyzing what some yacht anchor manufacturers are doing for marketing hype or specific yacht bow roller purposes and ignoring what the heavy commercial guys have been doing and testing for many decades.

Cheechacko’s sketch of surface areas illustrates exactly why it should be shackle pin to shank head and if you study the many photos, a full diameter pin seems to be recommended by the classification societies.

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=c...w=1366&bih=681

A 2nd joining shackle or joining link for studded chain shots is also common.
The most important issue is to always inspect your connecting links after a difficult anchor retrieval event.
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 17:11   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Oregon
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 5,565
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

[QUOTE=JonJo;1529054]I'd suggest putting a buoy on your anchor and see how often your anchor is dead ahead of your bow. Most of the time the anchor is 'off centre', your yacht is constantly veering. The average wind direction might not change but I have never been in an anchorage where the wind does not veer from side to side. Every time it veers it allows the chain to pull at a new angle, the anchor might re-align but 30 seconds later it needs to re-align again. Each time it realigns YOUR pin is point loaded and to one side. Every shackle maker stresses that the pin should be loaded centrally, which is why bow, anchor, shackles have a very short gap between the eyes - they are lifting shackles and the short pin better allows the load to be central. This goes for chain also and some put washers to ensure the chain stays centrally. Because the load is off centre on the pin there is every chance the end of the shank is imposing near one eye of the shackle - which is probably its weakest point. Shackles fail at the eye, not pin, not bow (unless the pin falls out - but that's a different issue).


If your chain is working back and forth at the shackle, you are in trouble. If I don't have at least 50' of chain on the bottom doing pretty much nothing, I need more chain out. Depending on just the anchor to keep you secure is risky. I have watched our Rocna drag with 50' of chain in 15'. The chain will actually lift the shank.
I'm not talking about big wind shifts where the the anchor needs to re-set but a pull in pretty much the same direction.
model 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 17:24   #43
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: Mahe 36, Helia 44 Evo, MY 37
Posts: 5,731
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Ice View Post
So ive bought my Rocna 40 KG galvanised anchor and i am connecting it to my 10mm galvanised chain, does the pin of the Wichard stainless 12mm shackle go through the chain or the anchor??

Brian
Shackle Pin should go through the chain link, so when the chain starts to turn with wind or current for a reset you will not be prying the shackle open on a side pull.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1174022
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	385.7 KB
ID:	80225  
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 17:43   #44
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pittwater, Sydney
Boat: Lightwave, Catamaran, 11.5m (38')
Posts: 1,000
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

[QUOTE=Guy;1529100]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJo View Post
I'd suggest putting a buoy on your anchor and see how often your anchor is dead ahead of your bow. Most of the time the anchor is 'off centre', your yacht is constantly veering. The average wind direction might not change but I have never been in an anchorage where the wind does not veer from side to side. Every time it veers it allows the chain to pull at a new angle, the anchor might re-align but 30 seconds later it needs to re-align again. Each time it realigns YOUR pin is point loaded and to one side. Every shackle maker stresses that the pin should be loaded centrally, which is why bow, anchor, shackles have a very short gap between the eyes - they are lifting shackles and the short pin better allows the load to be central. This goes for chain also and some put washers to ensure the chain stays centrally. Because the load is off centre on the pin there is every chance the end of the shank is imposing near one eye of the shackle - which is probably its weakest point. Shackles fail at the eye, not pin, not bow (unless the pin falls out - but that's a different issue).


If your chain is working back and forth at the shackle, you are in trouble. If I don't have at least 50' of chain on the bottom doing pretty much nothing, I need more chain out. Depending on just the anchor to keep you secure is risky. I have watched our Rocna drag with 50' of chain in 15'. The chain will actually lift the shank.
I'm not talking about big wind shifts where the the anchor needs to re-set but a pull in pretty much the same direction.

In a normal anchorage where you have had to allow for tide and in a normal yacht carrying 150'-300' of a recommended sized chain then: Above about 20/25 knots all of your chain is off the bottom. Once you get to 35-40 knots your chain is a straight as a laser beam (or almost).

We did the tests: at 5:1 scope with 90' of 5/16th chain it takes a load of 180lb (that's about the load a fit 40/50 year old can exert, at least momentarily) in air so maybe 160lb in water to lift all the chain off the ground. Obviously you could deploy all 300' and the situation improves but often you do not have room. You can have bigger chain but a 40' yacht with 300' of half inch chain in the bow is going to sail like a real dog.

Jonathan
JonJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2014, 18:18   #45
Registered User
 
DumnMad's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Brisbane
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,537
Re: Which way round should the shackle be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Shackle Pin should go through the chain link, so when the chain starts to turn with wind or current for a reset you will not be prying the shackle open on a side pull.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1174022
Over-size/strength shackle with an attachment loose enough to act a bit like a swivel.
DumnMad is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From Chicago to Mexico . . . Which Way Should I Go ? jojoross Great Lakes 7 29-07-2010 18:04
Which Way Should a Raw-Water Strainer Face ? bazzer Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 10-05-2010 15:23
Which Way Should I Go? Nice N Easy Atlantic & the Caribbean 3 03-12-2009 11:43
Ignition Key Turns All-the-Way 'Round Joe500 Engines and Propulsion Systems 7 25-07-2009 12:08
Which bay has more year round sailing opportunities, San Francisco or Chesapeake? Dagdason Fishing, Recreation & Fun 16 05-10-2008 13:35

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.