Which anchors should I keep?

[El Pinguino]

Hmmmmm....
I've lived for some years with a Rocna up the front and a danforth down the back for use as a kedge..and yes it does get used.... still got Tongan sand on it
Traded the CQR for a bit of labour years ago.. not missed... el crappo anchor unless you are dealing with pommie mud
Still have a Swarbrick in the focsle... just in case
Hope this helps.
Sail 'off soundings'... you won't need anchors.... mind you that logic brought 'Teddy' unstuck..

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Keep planning but do not purchase anything at least for the 3.5 years!

By then, there could be newer anchors or better built ones or better information available.

And FWIW, NEVER buy electronic stuff until you actually need it - but you prolly already know that

+1 I'd keep it all for now, and wait until you really need it or find a next gen anchor second hand at a reasonable price. A lot depends on the number of spare rodes you have. The system as it stands is safe enough but old school. And its much more work than the new approaches.

With the ability to to set three separate anchors on three different rodes you shouldn't have too much problem down here in Tassie at least. Even the old plow works well enough in southern Tassie, and the sarca and marsh anchors will work well enough around flinders to keep you out of trouble.

The ultimate solution of course is a good 60-80 lb next gen as a primary and a fortress as a secondary, but you know this I am sure.

So for now I wouldn't ditch any of them until you have a better allround primary anchor. For what it's worth I found a good second-hand 60lb Manson for a great price on gumtree. You might get lucky in the future.

Just be wary of that danforth. Many of the copies are crap. If it's a good one great, but I'd test it before you need it in anger. Even just on a beach behind a 4wd.

Even if you end up with a good next gen it might be worth hanging onto that old plow as a storm anchor or backup incase the next gen gets lost or damaged. So time spent devising a good hold down system isn't wasted. The next gens are great, but an big old plow can still hold very well when they dig in, especially in a soft bottom. And in Rocky stuff they can hang in ok as well. It's the harder sand/weed that is their weakness.

For warps I'd go one nylon, and one long 100m 20-25mm polyolefin three strand. These make a good tow line, great shorelines and drogue lines and they are cheap enough and float. They don't go all hard like old nylon, so can be much easier to handle.

[TheThunderbird]

Let me take a piggy-back here.

54' 26tonnes boat
75lbs original CQR on bow, very reliable, on full-chain line
65lbs original CQR on deck astern (a second main anchor, for spare, not for quick deployment, and never used)
20lbs Hull for day-time take-a-bath anchor

Bow may host one anchor only. How could I improve my setting?

A) a Fortress or Rocna as a new main, say 60lbs approx., for a lower weight on bow to ease the old Lofrans.... pity is decommissioning my main CQR, however...

B) a new-gen anchor (aluminium) of say 40lbs max, to add as second in a "Y" shape. Good manageability and reduced additional weight are important. It could also substitute my second CQR on deck (stern).

C) same as above, 25lbs anchor, to be used as replacement of my Hull, and as a serious stern anchor too.
So the Hull would be my salmon, I'd have a proper stern anchor to deploy, and I wouldn't decommission any...

At times, I used a salmon (weight) some way 40' after the main, for peace of mind... it is surely easier to work out than any "Y" settings (2 anchors off may always scramble, and never work at par at once).

The great pity, is having two CQRs of almost the same size, no flexibility and same weaknesses...that is the boat's legacy.

By reasoning, option C) seems to be the best one, and cheaper.

[TheThunderbird]

Fortress rate these anchor weights:

47lbs
32lbs
21lbs

[Blue Crab]

Our local consignment shop has genuine CQRs lined up. That ship has sailed.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Factor

Ditch the plough, talk to Rex at Anchor Right about your Sarca, and obviously keep the fine Marsh Stockless for its purpose, which no other anchor will do as well at. Keep the danforth and when it is crappy replace it with a Fortress

I spoke to Rex today.

Now there's a guy who makes good sense. Lots of options but I thought I would share part of the conversation because it speaks to his knowledge and experience. When I explained that I had a Sarca that was a size too small he noted that it probably would work well ( which it has for a decade or two and 40,000 odd miles) but that the biggest problem would be the weight of our boat would bend it.

Yep, it's bent. He recommended straightening it.

He also recommended that I check for excessive play in the knuckle joint of our fake CQR and yes, he is right, it is sloppy as heck and is allowing the plow part of the anchor to change angle of attack by ten or even fifteen degrees. I am starting to think this old thing is just dead weight. He certainly felt it would be no good.

He is suggesting a correctly sized Excel to compliment the existing Sarca.

An interesting idea. Any thoughts on this combo?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Snowpetrel]

Hi Matt, sounds like good advice from rex, thanks for sharing. If the plows that flogged out it might be useless, or it might not. Hard to know with the copies, some work well. And some are rubbish. though I'd still wait a few years before I rush into anything, sounds like you are right for now with the big marsh anchor.

I take it you've watched Panopes excellent videos of anchors setting series. The excel did very well there, as did all the next gen anchors.

Maybe you need to tow the danforth and the plow along a beach and video the results for us...

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GILow

I spoke to Rex today.......

He is suggesting a correctly sized Excel to compliment the existing Sarca.

An interesting idea. Any thoughts on this combo?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Sounds reasonable, my guess is the Excel wouldn't be streets ahead of other new gen anchors but would be equal among equals.

I'm very happy with my Excel but I'm only comparing it to CQR copies, not other new gens.

Having anchored in a variety of sea grass and light kelp over the previous week, I'm starting to lose my fear of grass bottoms (where the ploughs were hopeless). The Excel appeared to penetrate sea grass pretty well.

However the big thing to my mind is buying something from someone where you phone up and speak to the man who designs and makes the anchors; that is a priceless quality and shouldn't be underestimated - IMO.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by GILow

I spoke to Rex today.

Now there's a guy who makes good sense. Lots of options but I thought I would share part of the conversation because it speaks to his knowledge and experience. When I explained that I had a Sarca that was a size too small he noted that it probably would work well ( which it has for a decade or two and 40,000 odd miles) but that the biggest problem would be the weight of our boat would bend it.

Yep, it's bent. He recommended straightening it.

He also recommended that I check for excessive play in the knuckle joint of our fake CQR and yes, he is right, it is sloppy as heck and is allowing the plow part of the anchor to change angle of attack by ten or even fifteen degrees. I am starting to think this old thing is just dead weight. He certainly felt it would be no good.

He is suggesting a correctly sized Excel to compliment the existing Sarca.

An interesting idea. Any thoughts on this combo?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Matt, I went with a rocna of the size recommended by them at the Sydney boat show a few years ago, a great improvement on the delta that was on the boat when purchased but it still would sometimes drag, especially in soft mud.
Bit the bullet and followed rex's advice re the excell and all I can say is oh what a difference !!
A happy camper now.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Hi Matt, sounds like good advice from rex, thanks for sharing. If the plows that flogged out it might be useless, or it might not. Hard to know with the copies, some work well. And some are rubbish. though I'd still wait a few years before I rush into anything, sounds like you are right for now with the big marsh anchor.

I take it you've watched Panopes excellent videos of anchors setting series. The excel did very well there, as did all the next gen anchors.

Maybe you need to tow the danforth and the plow along a beach and video the results for us...

OK, I confess, I had skipped over the videos, and now I feel silly.

They are truly excellent, and I was chuffed when I found he has tested the Excel which came up well, at least in his top three at one point. Interestingly my faithful old Sarca came up just OK, not great, just OK.

On the strength of this and a few other comments, the Excel now looks to be on my shopping list before we head off around Oz.

Our very worn out COPY (I noted his correlation of Copy and Fail) of the CQR is now looking like so much ballast at this point.

As for the towing anchors along the beach, I do own a 4WD, but, alas, it is a Volvo station wagon. I am pretty sure I came close to killing it when I used it to clean the anchor chain last month (the engine management system intervened and shut down the air con in a attempt to keep things cool after a mile or so), I think pulling anchors down the beach with it would render the already piss-weak transmission into scrap. I have a mate with a BT50 who might jump at the chance to do such butch things.

Finally, I will have a look to see if I can replicate Steve's initial camera setup with the Marsh Stockless as I am reasonably confident he won't get a chance to test one, what with the company out of business and the anchor being a specialty item. One thing I do not expect is for the Marsh Stockless to resist dragging under the engine test. There is just not much surface area for the Marsh to resist pulling through sand.

Matt

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by GILow

Finally, I will have a look to see if I can replicate Steve's initial camera setup with the Marsh Stockless as I am reasonably confident he won't get a chance to test one, what with the company out of business and the anchor being a specialty item. One thing I do not expect is for the Marsh Stockless to resist dragging under the engine test. There is just not much surface area for the Marsh to resist pulling through sand.

Matt

Maybe I missed it, but I thought the stockless was considered best for grass/kelp/rocky areas (as opposed to sand) where other designs are at a disadvantage(?)

[Panope]

Matt, Video footage of the Marsh anchor would be great! Be sure and post it on my thread.

Re: SUPER Sarca: I would rate it better than "just OK". The only "operational fault" that I discovered, occurred in a very challenging set of circumstances (2.5 to 1 scope, big gravel, 180 degree torture test). Other than that test, the anchor was brilliant. Also note that the Sarca that I tested was smaller and lighter than other anchors.

That said, I think the Excel is superior. I was not able to find a single "operational" or "structural" (shank is beefy and uses high strength steel) fault with the anchor.

Steve

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Maybe I missed it, but I thought the stockless was considered best for grass/kelp/rocky areas (as opposed to sand) where other designs are at a disadvantage(?)

Don, absolutely.

The irony of the situation is that because I have been anchoring with the Sarca for the last three years I have studiously avoided the sea-grass bits and now all my favourite anchorages are sand patches. So in terms of starting from a familiar point of reference, I will be dropping the new (still untested) stockless on a patch of sand. But hey, fun test, and anyone who reads and watches Steve's work is no kind of an engineer at heart if they don't find themselves saying "I have to try that!"

Once I have found my feet with the new anchor (checked, for instance, that the windlass can actually lift it), I will then go forth in search of seagrass. (Most of which, strangely, appears to be washed up on our beach at the moment.)

Matt

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Panope

Matt, Video footage of the Marsh anchor would be great! Be sure and post it on my thread.

Re: SUPER Sarca: I would rate it better than "just OK". The only "operational fault" that I discovered, occurred in a very challenging set of circumstances (2.5 to 1 scope, big gravel, 180 degree torture test). Other than that test, the anchor was brilliant. Also note that the Sarca that I tested was smaller and lighter than other anchors.

That said, I think the Excel is superior. I was not able to find a single "operational" or "structural" (shank is beefy and uses high strength steel) fault with the anchor.

Steve

Goodness me! A visit from the man himself! Hello Steve.

Good to hear about the Sarca, I must have read your results in a more pessimistic manner than warranted. FWIW you tested the model only one size down from ours, which is too small for our boat, and I imagine would behave in a similar fashion, but as you and other correctly point out, those failures are as much a measure of failed anchoring technique as anything else.

If I can get a video it will be very much in your "Mark I" camera mode. I can only imagine the work involved in the "Mark II" camera system, which was well worth the effort, but beyond me.

Matt