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Old 05-07-2010, 00:46   #31
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In some parts of Mediterranean the anchorages are crowded and its common to have neighbours close.
You do get used to it and it causes surprisingly few problems. Boats swing together and seem to naturally avoid collision even when anchored very close.
Even after several years I have not been hit by a boat swinging into me, but several boats have hit me after dragging and I managed to avoid many more collisions with dragging boats by taking some action.
I do occasionally suggest politely that boats are anchored close, and almost always they agree to move, but these instances are rare and I worry much more about dragging boats as experience has shown these are much more likely to cause problems, at least in areas with few currents.
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:11   #32
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not really the issue at hand but several times there have been people too loud even for my liking.. out come the dubar p3 bagpipes for a few "off key" tunes.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:07   #33
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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Boats swing together and seem to naturally avoid collision even when anchored very close.

Even after several years I have not been hit by a boat swinging into me, but several boats have hit me after dragging
These two points are spot on.

There are many anchorages (in the caribbean and Europe) where less than a boat length between boats is typical. I have very rarely (in 15 years) seen any actually swing into each other. . . . and those cases were usually when one boat had a rope rode out with 'excessive' scope.

This 'too close' deal seems to be mostly an American preoccupation, as does the 'always 10:1 scope' . . . the rest of the world has mostly learned to get along in tight anchorages.

But back to the OP . . . if you really feel someone is too close you should row over and tell them that (politely) . . . but before you do watch the boats move for a while and make sure there is really a problem (eg that they might actually touch). In the case you mentioned (100' - 2 or 3 boat lengths - between the boats) I would never consider that too close.

In 15 years I don't think I have ever told another boat they were too close, and we have only been swung into once (by a power boat that had a mile of nylon rode out) . . . they were not 'too close' just using way way too much rode.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:20   #34
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There are some anchorages where you must leave a lot of space between boats. These are anchorages with a strong tidal current. The current swirls differently in different places in the anchorage and this is exacerbated if you have wind opposing these currents. Two that come quickly to mind are Wrightsville Beach, NC and Normans Island in the Bahamas. The boats just twirl around and even range forward on their rodes, each one going its own way, sometimes charging right at another anchored boat. Normans is especially bad as the current acts very differently in different spots. And if a boat hits you there it might be more than just a glancing blow!
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:31   #35
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Mariness,

10:1 all the times sounds a bit conservative to say the least. Does he insist on 10:1 in a 5 kt breeze in a sheltered harbor?
I don't know about "insist", he just kind of does it. But so far we've never been in a place where there was a concern with the other boats. He also prefers all-chain rode so I guess that helps.
I know he wouldn't be deliberately offensive, but the general idea seems to be that we should anchor in the way that will best protect our boat, even if other people disagree.
I, on the other hand, am much more concerned about other people's impressions (some might say too much so), so I would almost rather run aground than have someone think us rude. I'm the one who would be standing on deck going, "They're staring at us, are you SURE we're not too close? I don't want them to get mad and have to move on our account."

Quote:
This 'too close' deal seems to be mostly an American preoccupation,
I think this may be right. Americans tend to have a larger sense of personal space in a lot of ways - we stand farther apart than many cultures when greeting people, for example.
Oddly, while I can be very protective about my individual personal space, for some reason this doesn't seem to translate to boats/living space. As long as conditions are reasonably safe, if we've decided we want to hit the popular spots, I'm pretty happy with a "the more the merrier" outlook.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:46   #36
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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
There are many anchorages (in the caribbean and Europe) where less than a boat length between boats is typical. I have very rarely (in 15 years) seen any actually swing into each other. . . . and those cases were usually when one boat had a rope rode out with 'excessive' scope.
Wish we had your luck. We had three boats anchor too close and swing into us our first two months in the Caribbean. Spent a lot of time with fenders and boat hooks pushing them off until they finally moved. All chain, reasonable scope.

Less than a boat length is fine when the boats are off your bow and stern. When they are 20' abreast of you, then there will probably be issues.

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Old 05-07-2010, 09:34   #37
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I don't know about "insist", he just kind of does it. But so far we've never been in a place where there was a concern with the other boats. He also prefers all-chain rode so I guess that helps.
I know he wouldn't be deliberately offensive, but the general idea seems to be that we should anchor in the way that will best protect our boat, even if other people disagree.
I'm not a big 10:1 kind of guy unless a storm is coming it just does not seem necessary. But if you are not swinging into anyone else or taking up the space of 4 boats then have at it.

As far as space goes, as long as they are not getting into my rode and keep a reasonable distance, say 50 ft then I am OK with it.

One of the biggest problems is I am always surprised how many boats (part time/weekend type) that cannot let out a 10:1 scope in 30 ft of water just because their rode is too short.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:47   #38
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When we were in Bequia, we had a 115 foot megayahct mvharmony pull up alongside and anchor way too close. We told them that they were too close, and they ignored us. They did not move. The next morning, they pulled up anchor in a 25 knot squall, the lost control of their bow, and their bow slammed into Exit Only doing $2000 damage to our bow pulpit.

Since they make $65,000 per week doing charters in the area, they came over and paid the $2000 in cash for repairs. That was the only bright spot in the whole experience.

Check out this link to see what hit us. index or you check this link: http://www.mvharmony.com/

The other good thing was that our 70 lb Beugel anchor did not budge from its location on the sea bed. That was a good test of our anchor and chain.

It was the nicest yacht that ever hit us. We were lucky the damage was not more severe. If I did not have my parachute sea anchor chainplate sticking out in front of the bow to engage their hull, the damage could have been alot worse. I didn't know that the parachute sea anchor chainplate would be such a good bumper. Their bow destroyed our bow pulpit and deformed the bail sticking out in front of the parachute anchor chainplate.





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Old 05-07-2010, 10:00   #39
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Just out of interest, does anyone use an anchor buoy to mark the position of their anchor so that hopefully another boat wont foul the tackle or am I wasting my time using one?
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:13   #40
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Just out of interest, does anyone use an anchor buoy to mark the position of their anchor so that hopefully another boat wont foul the tackle or am I wasting my time using one?
To some "anchor buoy" is a four letter word. Do a search on previous post and you will find all kinds of opinions.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:28   #41
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In the case you mentioned (100' - 2 or 3 boat lengths - between the boats) I would never consider that too close.
Normally I wouldn't consider 100' too close, except that the other vessel put out a bow and stern anchor, I had a 150' swing radius, he had a 0' swing radius leaving a 50' overlap/collision zone.

the few times I have used a bow and stern anchor was in the rivers to get my beam close to shore and not swing into the shore.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:54   #42
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I don't know about "insist", he just kind of does it. But so far we've never been in a place where there was a concern with the other boats. He also prefers all-chain rode so I guess that helps.
Probably sitting to the chain more often than not, and therefore defacto far less than 10:1 in use.

Quote:
I know he wouldn't be deliberately offensive, but the general idea seems to be that we should anchor in the way that will best protect our boat, even if other people disagree.
I agree with that Just perhaps that in an ever more crowded world (and anchorages) that setting an anchor to a length of rode that covers all eventualities (from lunch in the cockpit on a sunny windless day when crew onboard to F10 and the crew onshore) is something that one has to compromise on.........simply by being prepared to adjust rode length (or even re anchor?) as required (depending on cruising area odds are that anchorages thin out overnight or when bad weather approaches so 10:1 not a problem, but lunchtime at a weekend in sunny weather is another matter).


On a general note, what about the approach of hailing someone from deck as you circle to ask what rode they have out / how's the bottom holding / is the bottom as indicated on the chart / what anchor do they have? or row over after dropping the hook and ask (bit easier to hear!). Just make it casual that you are deciding whether to change Anchors etc and that re-anchoring is a simple affair (sounds like a pro ). The point is that you are asking advice / for information (folks like that ) and indicating that you are seeking to do the right thing and sounds like you know what you are doing , but are not seeking permission. You can also get a good idea as to whether they are local (not a guarantee of having any local knowledge though ) and what gear they have down.......spin off is that other vessels think you are either a regular (who therefore knows the local rules) or has mates in another boat (folks less willing to try and impose their view on a group / pack simply out of selfish desire or for marginal reasons).

Also simply a way to introduce yourself (onboard? - do I smell Beer? )...........of course if they are still stand offish about you sharing "their" bay and they have 25:1 out of chain with a dirty great big anchor and an anchor bouy , just say "great I will moor alongside " and in response to their look of horror "Don't worry, I've got a fenderboard. and some tyres ".

The best way to tackle folks who are "going off on one" is to be nice. and reasonable. It annoys them. Or shoot them..........but that's another thread
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Old 05-07-2010, 14:29   #43
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There are some anchorages where you must leave a lot of space between boats. These are anchorages with a strong tidal current.
I feel Vasco's point is important. Tide (or lack of it) leads to very different opinions in 'anchor separation' discussions in this forum. What works inside coral reefs may not work very well in tidal rivers.

People sailing in non-tidal areas have said on previous threads that they lie happily over other peoples anchors. But watching how different boats on different rodes move in wind over tide situations, I feel very nervous about that advice if it is given as unqualified advice. JMHO.

The approach obviously works for them, where they sail. Tide generally requires more separation.
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Old 05-07-2010, 15:27   #44
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On July 4th to close is touching in some anchorages. In popular July 4th anchorages. You have to be mindful that your rhode doesn't get sucked into a prop.
Anchoring on the 4th requires some skills that aren't seen at other times. July 4th technique. The anchor man stands in the bow and posess like a harpooner. The Shank of the anchor should be aft of the flukes. The helmsmen advances waiting fir the strike. What the anchorman sees I can't tell. What I can say is there is a moment when men are once men again. It is a savage spectacle the anchorman sensing the moment is near arches his back and using muscles that most of us will never use with good reason launches the anchor forward. The anchor man yells and the boat flys forward lurches spins around the anchorman starts realing in cable. The hunt is on I think. Others are arming themselves and yelling obsenities. Usually the line snarls their prop and they drift
off. A few a very few set their darts firmly in the ground. Many more I think hooked my chain and though I was certain I would have several anchors to harvest in the morning I had none. At this rate anchoring might become an OSHA regulated event and hard hats will be required
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Old 05-07-2010, 15:29   #45
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