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Old 25-03-2013, 00:51   #106
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................

People who don't dive also believe the anchor rotates more often than it does. It is variable with bottom type, size of anchor, scope etc, but a well set anchor will typically stay set in the same direction until the windspeed reaches around 25k.
Just another of those advantages of having an experienced diver aboard a cruising yacht.
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Old 25-03-2013, 01:03   #107
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

Beach tests are good for testing the behaviour of beach anchors, I reckon.

I don't recall ever seeing an anchor behave the same on land as underwater, in any important respect, even with straight-line pull -- with the possible exception of large wet boulders.

And even testing above the low-tide line is, I find, very suspect.

Some hopeful anchor manufacturer posted some videos recently of a guy running along the beach pulling an anchor on a string.

I didn't realise it was a 'for real' demo, I thought they were taking the piss on new Gen testing modes, with a rank exaggeration for comic effect.

(Not just the location, but the frankly ludicrous loading method)

Even if I only wanted to anchor a jetski (in practice I'd be more likely to want to load it into a compactor ;-) I wouldn't consider an anchor which had been demoed like that.

.... Let alone designed in a way which paid serious heed to the results of beach tests.

I think there are good reasons why proper land anchors generally look nothing like our anchors.
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Old 25-03-2013, 03:33   #108
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Okay, let me describe our experiences with our Bruce:

Snip

7. During big storms the anchor digs down further and further. We have had it 10 feet down the seabed once, taking 5 hours to get it back up. This is very different from the tests where you see it just crawl through the sand a bit.


cheers,
Nick.

Reflects my experience with large Bruce anchors used by rigs.
Off Angola, we were pulling anchors for a semi sub rig in 1500m water depth. The anchors were 19 tonne Bruce twin shanks. They were typically taking 12 hrs to break out using in the region of 120 tonnes break out pull.
One anchor took 36 hrs, eventually it was broken out using close to 200 tonnes pull, and the rig shortening the chain scope to water depth, and another tug towing the rig in the opposite direction to the pull we were exerting.
It did eventually break out, and was estimated to have buried itself 50 meters into the seabed. When we got it back, the flukes had been inverted, and the anchor was a write off. Still, the cost of hiring a rig for a day far exceeds the cost of a replacement anchor.

The Bruce anchors are popular with rig operators as they guarantee to right themselves on the sea bed, where as the Vryhof Stevpris anchors, if landed upside down, will never right themselves.
On the other hand, the anchor handling tugs despise the Bruce anchor for the amount of damage it can do to the tug.
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Old 25-03-2013, 06:17   #109
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

Fwiw the few times I have used Bruce's I have been impressed with the instant set and holding, compared to my usual CQRs. Even bruces I considered rather small did well.

I have one in my shed lent from a friend. It's a cheap copy. The biggest difference is the very blunt flukes, they haven't even bothered to put any camfer on them. Still my friend had good success with it on his boat in a wide variety of conditions. Not sure I would trust it...
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Old 25-03-2013, 06:35   #110
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Yes, I believe the smaller Bruce anchors do well in most softer seabeds and just have a bit of trouble in hard sand etc. Because of the size of our boat, we often have to anchor a bit out of the center of the anchorage where most boats are. In the Carib, this often puts you in a spot with a hard seabed, while most boats anchor where countless others have ploughed the seabed before. This is why our free-fall technique works so well I think. When I dive on it, the impact crater is significant.

About our gear: 176lb. (80kg) Bruce with 300' 3/8" G7 chain.
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Old 25-03-2013, 06:53   #111
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

Nick,

When Jedi rode out its hurricane, what sort of snubber was in place and did it survive the chafe?

Thanks, Steve
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Old 25-03-2013, 06:53   #112
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

jedi--i freefall mine also and it sticks well...i have had awesome good performance out of my 66 pound original bruce .... we had a tormenta(lightning storm) hit us in december--i didnt move an inch..was impressive...
i am also impressed with the kathunk sound ofmy anchor on the rocky sand below---and when we back her down, no movement at all...loving my bruce.

i guess i just screwed m chances of getting another for cheap! shuckeydurns....
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Old 25-03-2013, 07:37   #113
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Nick,

When Jedi rode out its hurricane, what sort of snubber was in place and did it survive the chafe?

Thanks, Steve
We had a 3/4" nylon 3-strand snubber which broke with the expensive (hook) end missing. The piece still attached to the boat was molten where it broke. This indicates internal chafing: the fibers rubbing against each other generating heat with imminent failure.

The only way to survive that kind of load (120 knot sustained wind with 140 knot gusts) is to have steel where it counts. Strong chain with chain stopper is what saved us (a Maxwell 3/8" chain stopper). You need strong deck reinforcement where the stopper is mounted, like a partial bulkhead with stringer if possible.
Another method is to create a short snubber from steel wire, that attaches to a strong cleat and is short enough to stay on deck. A chain stopper is obviously the way to go but not always possible.

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jedi--i freefall mine also and it sticks well...i have had awesome good performance out of my 66 pound original bruce .... we had a tormenta(lightning storm) hit us in december--i didnt move an inch..was impressive...
i am also impressed with the kathunk sound ofmy anchor on the rocky sand below---and when we back her down, no movement at all...loving my bruce.

i guess i just screwed m chances of getting another for cheap! shuckeydurns....
Exactly. I see all long time cruisers do the freefall method and always tell people that 66lb. and up for Bruce is the magic number it seems
The hard set of a Bruce is just wonderful
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Old 25-03-2013, 07:49   #114
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Another method is to create a short snubber from steel wire, that attaches to a strong cleat and is short enough to stay on deck
Or a decent size spectra strop . . . that's what we use.

It, however, has never been tested in 120kts sustained . . . thank the gods!
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Old 25-03-2013, 07:55   #115
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Another method is to create a short snubber from steel wire, that attaches to a strong cleat and is short enough to stay on deck. A chain stopper is obviously the way to go but not always possible.
The distance from my windlass to the bow roller is too short to allow a normal chain stopper. Here is What I made up the other day. It will be welded directly to the deck - in line with chain. Hope it will not break.

Steve
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Old 25-03-2013, 07:56   #116
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

the trawler clown who anchored over my anchor chain and anchor pulled up a bruce but he had nothing on it--i usually pull up muck with mine----he set his with electric control of anchor dropping...didnt free fall it. glad there was no appreciable wind for these days..
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Old 25-03-2013, 09:35   #117
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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The distance from my windlass to the bow roller is too short to allow a normal chain stopper. Here is What I made up the other day. It will be welded directly to the deck - in line with chain. Hope it will not break.

Steve
The Maxwell chain stopper is smaller than your version:



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Old 25-03-2013, 09:37   #118
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Or a decent size spectra strop . . . that's what we use.

It, however, has never been tested in 120kts sustained . . . thank the gods!
I really would not know how Spectra would hold up; I know it is much more resistant to heat and it's braided construction is less prone to internal chafing so the chances are good but who tested it?
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Old 25-03-2013, 09:51   #119
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Spectra . . . but who tested it?
Offshore fishing trawlers and ship mooring lines. It's pretty much completely replaced wire. . . . Lighter, safer, longer working life.

If you think wire could do the job, then spectra can do better, except for application which are extremely stretch critical (which a chain lock is not).

I use it all over Hawk, to replace stainless shackles, to replace wire check stays, as the 'chain lock', etc.
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Old 25-03-2013, 10:14   #120
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Re: What happened to Bruce almighty?

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Offshore fishing trawlers and ship mooring lines. It's pretty much completely replaced wire. . . . Lighter, safer, longer working life.

If you think wire could do the job, then spectra can do better, except for application which are extremely stretch critical (which a chain lock is not).

I use it all over Hawk, to replace stainless shackles, to replace wire check stays, as the 'chain lock', etc.
Oh yes, I agree and use it much too... but I'm not sure if it has been tested in hurricane force winds as an anchor chain snubber...
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