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Old 19-02-2015, 15:29   #16
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

I don't understand. WM lists a 60lb CQR for $950, and a 55lb Rocna for $560. The Vulcan 55lb is $590. Granted, a cast 66lb claw Bruce knockoff is only $270, but if you want a quality Manson Bruce model, it is >$1,000 (I can't believe that is the right price, but that is what they list).

If you believe in those cheap cast claw anchors, you should do a search here for GMac's experience with them as a dealer. He relates several of them simply snapping in half when they fell over on the floor, as well as several customers breaking them in use.

So I believe paying twice as much for an anchor that doesn't break if you tap it with a hammer is good, as is paying half as much for an anchor that reliably sets hard and fast and stays that way.

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Old 19-02-2015, 17:02   #17
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Well fine but you haven't answered my question. Are you saying that the more money an anchor costs, the better it is? It sounds as if you are.

Please, if you can, answer the questions in my previous post. I don't really care what kind of anchor you have unless you can explain why it's better than another,less expensive anchor.
I'm saying quality does not usually come cheap. You need to do your research but in the final analysis good ground tackle does not come cheap. Whether the manufacturer's price is inflated or not I don't know. They might be making an exorbitant profit or they might not. All I know is if you want good ground tackle, you have to pay! It's worth it. I'll sleep tonight and its still blowing 30.


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Old 19-02-2015, 21:37   #18
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

looks great. I want to see how it fits on a bow roller. Often times people buy q $600 anchor and then $1000 worth of anchor roller changes. My Rocna needed a few mods. Luckly I have a Machine shop and access to SS



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Old 20-02-2015, 06:33   #19
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

I'll be sure to post up a picture once I have it mounted on our boat. Biggest reason I got this anchor over a Mantus/Rocna/Mason/etc is that the roll bar anchors won't fit on our boat.
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Old 20-02-2015, 08:12   #20
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

Last week I had to look at steel prices for mild steel, formed to a custom shape. Big stuff, lots of quantity.

It came out to a little over $2/lb, HDG.

I think that's a pretty good basic material cost.

It's also about inline with OnlineMetal.com prices, considering they are selling standard shapes.

I've a Spade also because I could not fit a roll bar. Even at that I was limited to 66lb by the aperture the shank had to fit through.

When I rebuilt my bow sprit I moved the rollers forward and to the outside. Now I can fit almost any size anchor. And I got a big'un. It DOES make people laugh.

I suspect the Spade got a premium price because of the shank geometry, it was the only big anchor option for us with a shank aperture.

The recent Chesapeake mud anchor test as reported in Praticle Sailor was a bit of eye opener. It does point to the benefit of having then biggest, highest surface area, anchor you can carry. Ironically I experienced a bad mud condition not in the Chesapeake but in Newfoundland where even the Spade 66 just skidded merrily along. Thus the Mantus 125.
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Old 20-02-2015, 08:39   #21
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

The fit is different. The photos show the Vulcan on a roller that was custom made for the Rocna 33kg. The Vulcan is also 33kg.
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Old 20-02-2015, 09:03   #22
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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Yes I know, peace of mind, but are these anchors three times as good as an equivalent claw anchor? Or any of the other traditional designs? Isn't this a glorified plow anchor at twice the price?
Depends on how you define "good". If a new gen anchor holds in a 50 knot blow when your claw drags, then it is hundreds of times better, not just 3 times as "good", even though it may have only twice the holding power.

The Vulcan bears absolutely no resemblance to a plow.
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Old 20-02-2015, 09:21   #23
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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Depends on how you define "good". If a new gen anchor holds in a 50 knot blow when your claw drags, then it is hundreds of times better, not just 3 times as "good", even though it may have only twice the holding power.

The Vulcan bears absolutely no resemblance to a plow.
But if the claw doesn't drag then the "new gen" anchor is no better.

I've never seen proof that a $200 anchor holds twice as well as a $100 anchor. Or any better than a $100 anchor. Spending more is not a guarantee of better holding power. Increasing the size and weight would generally produce better holding power.

So back to my questions: I often wonder how the price is set on anchors, especially the more expensive ones. Does it really cost several hundred dollars to cast a hunk of metal and polish it? Or is the cost in the research and development? Do we pay for a brand name or advertising?
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Old 20-02-2015, 09:35   #24
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

You pay for an anchor - how the absolute prices are determined is no more consequential than any other manufactured item. Even if all anchors have a 10000% markup, you still need to buy an anchor. The market determines the price.

As my pricing shows above, the "claw" anchor is really the only similar anchor that is less expensive than all the others.

This anchor also has had some very questionable quality and build issues.

If a roll of paper towels on a chain doesn't drag, then of course it is no better than anything else at the end of that chain. But this isn't a valid argument because certain anchors DO perform better than others in various conditions and bottoms. Lots of studies on that - and even if one doesn't agree with the various experimental methods and conclusions, I haven't heard anyone state that there are no differences in performance between anchors and anchor types.

Using your reasoning, a $10 grapnel made from rebar is just as good as a $600 Vulcan as long as it holds you at the time. The real problem becomes the next time, and the next…

Why haven't you sold your cheap anchor and bought a cheaper anchor?

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Old 20-02-2015, 09:45   #25
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
But if the claw doesn't drag then the "new gen" anchor is no better.
Well, that's a mighty big "IF"... ;-)

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I've never seen proof that a $200 anchor holds twice as well as a $100 anchor. Or any better than a $100 anchor. Spending more is not a guarantee of better holding power. Increasing the size and weight would generally produce better holding power.
In its heyday, before Peter Bruce's patent ran out, I seem to recall that a genuine Bruce was one of the more expensive anchors you could buy... Even today, a Belgian-made Bruce in decent condition will command a pretty hefty price on eBay, or in a marine consignment shop... And, pound for pound, a new CQR is one of the most expensive anchors out there, and I'm pretty sure the "research and development" was done quite some time ago, on that one... West Marine sells a 33 lb Vulcan for $340, and a 35 lb. Lewmar CQR for $820... Now, what kind of sense does THAT make?

A guy like Steve Dashew used to think his Bruce was the best all-around anchor there was... Well, he no longer believes that. And, he's certainly not the only one...

:-)


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Old 20-02-2015, 10:17   #26
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

I've become numb to the $500 vs . $1000 argument around boat equipment. I'm going to spend whatever it takes on my boat equipment to be sure I have a top performer. It doesn't have to be THE top performer but within the top 3.

My spade fit the bill because it fit in my anchor roller and the Vulcan looks like it would also. The simple fact that there is less stress between my wife and I when trying to land our new Spade vs. the old Bruce (that would always get caught on the bobstay) is worth the $500 alone. One less thing to worry about.

I only wish I had gotten a much bigger Spade but the price was astronomical. Now that I can get a 100 poundish Vulcan for the same price as a 55 pound spade (there-about), I'll be adding a second anchor to my roller when we switch to G4 chain.
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Old 20-02-2015, 10:33   #27
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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But if the claw doesn't drag then the "new gen" anchor is no better.

I've never seen proof that a $200 anchor holds twice as well as a $100 anchor. Or any better than a $100 anchor. Spending more is not a guarantee of better holding power. Increasing the size and weight would generally produce better holding power.

So back to my questions: I often wonder how the price is set on anchors, especially the more expensive ones. Does it really cost several hundred dollars to cast a hunk of metal and polish it? Or is the cost in the research and development? Do we pay for a brand name or advertising?

I have no doubts that we pay extra for research and development, which could be rolled into paying extra for a brand name, as the brand names are the ones that do all the research and development. I have no problem with this, if we didn't pay for it, then there would be no incentive for companies to improve products.

I realize this article is hosted on Rocna's website, but this is yachting monthly's test of a wide range of anchors in multiple locations and multiple scopes, and other than the last page inserted by Rocna, appears to not have any connections to any one specific anchor/brand. Read the article, see what your own conclusions are. I believe these results mirror other independent tests.
http://www.rocna.com/sites/default/f...ym_testing.pdf

For what it's worth, our boat had a 20# Lewmar Claw anchor, which I didn't have much trust in. It seems quite small for our boat and doesn't seem to perform the best as shown in the above article.

My new anchor isn't on that test, however it's a very similar design to the Spade and comes from a (mostly) reputable company. For half the price of a Spade, I was willing to take the risk on the new design.

In the end, we all have to make our own decisions about what we spend our money on. I think I'll sleep better at night with the new anchor than I would with the old anchor.
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Old 20-02-2015, 10:36   #28
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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My spade fit the bill because it fit in my anchor roller and the Vulcan looks like it would also. The simple fact that there is less stress between my wife and I when trying to land our new Spade vs. the old Bruce (that would always get caught on the bobstay) is worth the $500 alone. One less thing to worry about.
We have the same problem with the bobstay and claw anchor too, glad to hear your spade works better. Hopefully the new Vulcan will work better for us as well.
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Old 20-02-2015, 11:44   #29
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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So back to my questions: I often wonder how the price is set on anchors, especially the more expensive ones. Does it really cost several hundred dollars to cast a hunk of metal and polish it? Or is the cost in the research and development? Do we pay for a brand name or advertising?
You do realize that prices in a market economy are only loosely based on input costs, right? Prices are set based on what the customer will pay, balanced against market share and general profitability. So of course we pay for brand names, advertising, along with R&D, shareholder dividends, etc. Not saying I like this, but that's the world we live in.

To the more important question, it would be foolish to try and save money on an anchor system just to be save a few dollars. I buy the best possible anchor system I can afford. What you decide is the "best" anchor is an endless debate, but I would not based my decision on dollars. I'd base it on what I think is the best anchor for my boat and cruising area.
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Old 20-02-2015, 12:36   #30
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Re: Vulcan Anchors by Canada Metal Products

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You do realize that prices in a market economy are only loosely based on input costs, right? Prices are set based on what the customer will pay, balanced against market share and general profitability. So of course we pay for brand names, advertising, along with R&D, shareholder dividends, etc. Not saying I like this, but that's the world we live in.

To the more important question, it would be foolish to try and save money on an anchor system just to be save a few dollars. I buy the best possible anchor system I can afford. What you decide is the "best" anchor is an endless debate, but I would not based my decision on dollars. I'd base it on what I think is the best anchor for my boat and cruising area.
Yes, "best" is an endless debate. My boat came to me with a 22 lb claw anchor, marked "Made in China". I used it for several years with no dragging or failures but in anticipation of more serious use, I replaced it with a 33 lb Lewmar claw, the largest that would fit my anchor roller. It has not dragged or failed to set either. (I also set an anchor drag alarm.)

Given my history with these two similar anchors, my boat and my cruising area, the little calculator in my head can see no good reason to rush out and spend several hundred dollars on the latest "new gen" anchor (keeping in mind that an anchor is something you can lose to a snag on the bottom).

Now if my anchor ever does fail me, I will certainly rethink the issue.
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