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Old 17-10-2021, 07:12   #841
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Sam, a "hit" like that would be nice. "How to" videos are not really my thing, but I'll give it some thought.



Steve
Steve, I think to do that properly would require an incredible investment in time, money, additional help and equipment to prove anything for just one anchor, nevermind your whole portfolio..

Even then, it would be and exercise in frustration and inconclusive due to so many variables unknow forces over time.

My own anchoring process developed on vessel's from 30ft to 400ft has proven quite consistent and very much dependent on the type of bottom..

On the softer, more slippery Bottoms you try to find a deeper depression, put it in there and with 30% brake softly and slowly lay out maximum scope allowing it to gently come up hard.

If you can, allow it to soak, before testing harder if expecting weather

On Bottoms with a more rocky profile, level contour is better, lay out scope with 60% brake until chain keeps coming up hard.

When you have your planned scope out, Increase brake tension to about 80% and test harder until brake releases chain under full tension......
....Then secure

I am sure others do it differently, but it is like playing a fish, trying to set the hook for that particular species, while watching the angle on your line
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Old 17-10-2021, 07:28   #842
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

I would love to see a specific Anchor tested in a large number of incremental sizes on the same sea beds to see the actual differences in holding power and performance as the size increases.

We all assume that as size increases "x" % we see "x" % of change. I am now beginning to think otherwise.
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Old 17-10-2021, 07:38   #843
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Steve, I think to do that properly would require an incredible investment in time, money, additional help and equipment to prove anything for just one anchor, nevermind your whole portfolio..

Even then, it would be and exercise in frustration and inconclusive due to so many variables unknow forces over time.

My own anchoring process developed on vessel's from 30ft to 400ft has proven quite consistent and very much dependent on the type of bottom..

On the softer, more slippery Bottoms you try to find a deeper depression, put it in there and with 30% brake softly and slowly lay out maximum scope allowing it to gently come up hard.

If you can, allow it to soak, before testing harder if expecting weather

On Bottoms with a more rocky profile, level contour is better, lay out scope with 60% brake until chain keeps coming up hard.

When you have your planned scope out, Increase brake tension to about 80% and test harder until brake releases chain under full tension......
....Then secure

I am sure others do it differently, but it is like playing a fish, trying to set the hook for that particular species, while watching the angle on your line
Pelagic, your post is far too pessimistic in my opinion for what I’m purposing. A simple basic how to anchor in different seabeds or anchoring in general. The audience target would be new boaters looking at a how to video.

I feel Panope videos target advanced users looking for additional information that seriously would not be useful to someone starting out with a first new boat searching for how to anchor. Or “why is my anchor dragging” - “why doesn’t my anchor hold” - “how much scope do I need” - “why do anchors have chain instead of all rope” - “why is my anchor heavy to pull up” - etc.

Panope probably could use a lot of his footage already but needs to change the spin on his videos to target new users to the boating industry.

Sam
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Old 17-10-2021, 07:57   #844
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Woodbridge View Post



Panope probably could use a lot of his footage already but needs to change the spin on his videos to target new users to the boating industry.



Sam
Sam, it was actually the video part needed to illustrate that made me question the effectiveness

You would need divers in the water a long time to illustrate
Anchor Landing
Chain piling up then pulling out.
Anchor sliding on soft bottom
Time lapse Anchor/ soaking
Anchor catching on Small/Big Rocks
Natural tide Land-Sea breeze changes. .
.....I could go on and on including videos of how your chain is acting on the bow roller, but you get my point.

The questions you asked are part of a basic Cruise and Learn course and include feeling and hearing senses

Not sure if Steve has an actual target audience, but if he did, it would make sense that the actual Anchor Buyer/owner of boat would be the most interested

That is why I hope the anchor manufacturer helps to subsidize his costs as well
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Old 17-10-2021, 08:02   #845
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Pelagic, the other thing that needs to be capitalize on. Is that Panope already has a good amount of people fallowing his videos. Which is crucial in venturing out with a new idea with his videos. He will need people like us who will watch and hit the “like button” to push his video in front of more people on YouTube.

Hope someone reads my posts. It’s always a concern of mine that I might just be writing to myself.

Sam

I just saw your post Pelagic. Thank you for the response. Although I think your ideas are over doing it.

Thanks again -Sam
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Old 17-10-2021, 12:17   #846
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

I sure feel like I'm wading into the deep end of the pool with my first post to the forum... First, thanks Steve. I don't have any suggestions for you, only gratitude for the many, many hours of work you've put into this.

We cruise primarily in the San Juan islands and frequently anchor in mud or mud with shells. In May of 2020 we switched from a shiny 44# SS Lewmar claw to an 85# Galvanized Mantus M1 on our Meridian 490. It's likely a bit of overkill, but we don't drag in 40+ kt winds and I'm satisfied with that. In December 2020 Mantus sent us a new shank with a very slightly different design. It opens the angle between the shank and the tip of the fluke and my expectation was for it to set faster and dig deeper. It's a small change - may 3/4" difference in height and 1 1/2" longer overall. The difference we saw was immediate and not positive! In the same locations, the anchor didn't set any faster and didn't hold as well. I switched back to the original and remain very happy with it. A small detail in the geometry resulting in a larger change in performance.
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Old 17-10-2021, 12:18   #847
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
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.........That is why I hope the anchor manufacturer helps to subsidize his costs as well
This is taboo. The exception would be if the manufacturer makes a donation anonymously.

Researchers must remain financially detached from the specimens.

---------------------

Occasionally, I give a financial report. Here is an update (Oct-2021):

-YouTube (google) has been sending about $120 per month.
-Paypal donations have been good for about $150 per month.
-Patreon pledges are up to about $500 per month. (79 patrons - Thank you!)

Until recently, ALL income (and a lot of my own money) was consumed by equipment and other costs.

Lately, I have been skimming money to buy Cheerios and such. This has allowed me to work less (at my day job) and do more anchor stuff.

At Minimum, I spend 100 hours per month testing and producing videos. Times spent on forums is extra

Steve
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Old 17-10-2021, 12:38   #848
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by U_C View Post
I sure feel like I'm wading into the deep end of the pool with my first post to the forum... First, thanks Steve. I don't have any suggestions for you, only gratitude for the many, many hours of work you've put into this.

We cruise primarily in the San Juan islands and frequently anchor in mud or mud with shells. In May of 2020 we switched from a shiny 44# SS Lewmar claw to an 85# Galvanized Mantus M1 on our Meridian 490. It's likely a bit of overkill, but we don't drag in 40+ kt winds and I'm satisfied with that. In December 2020 Mantus sent us a new shank with a very slightly different design. It opens the angle between the shank and the tip of the fluke and my expectation was for it to set faster and dig deeper. It's a small change - may 3/4" difference in height and 1 1/2" longer overall. The difference we saw was immediate and not positive! In the same locations, the anchor didn't set any faster and didn't hold as well. I switched back to the original and remain very happy with it. A small detail in the geometry resulting in a larger change in performance.
Greetings U_C,

I was unaware that Mantus has made a (another?) change to their M1 shank - thanks for sharing.

On the one hand, I am surprised that those small changes resulted in a difference in performance that was noticeable to a user.

On the other hand, increasing the "throat angle" of an anchor beyond a critical value can result in the anchor not being able to set in some seabeds.

For example, during my recent testing in the surf at Ocean Shores, I attempted a pull with a second hand Danforth 18H. The anchor absolutely would not set or penetrate. Even when buried by hand, the anchor immediately popped out of the seabed as soon as I started pulling. Later, careful examination revealed that this anchor had been overloaded resulting in the hinge "stops" to be deformed. This increased the "throat angle" by several degrees. (Note: an un-damaged Fortress anchor set and held beautifully in this seabed).

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Steve
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Old 17-10-2021, 13:30   #849
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Greetings U_C,

I was unaware that Mantus has made a (another?) change to their M1 shank - thanks for sharing.

On the one hand, I am surprised that those small changes resulted in a difference in performance that was noticeable to a user.

On the other hand, increasing the "throat angle" of an anchor beyond a critical value can result in the anchor not being able to set in some seabeds.

For example, during my recent testing in the surf at Ocean Shores, I attempted a pull with a second hand Danforth 18H. The anchor absolutely would not set or penetrate. Even when buried by hand, the anchor immediately popped out of the seabed as soon as I started pulling. Later, careful examination revealed that this anchor had been overloaded resulting in the hinge "stops" to be deformed. This increased the "throat angle" by several degrees. (Note: an un-damaged Fortress anchor set and held beautifully in this seabed).

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Steve
You're welcome and thanks for the reply. "Throat angle" - I'll add that to my vocabulary! I'm not sure if it was "another" change to the M1 shank, as it's the only one I'm aware of. I still need to figure out what to do with it as I'm not going to use it...

Out of curiosity, do you use a load cell to measure pulling force for your tests or do you have another way to calculate the value for your boat? Now I'm interested in figuring out the amount of force we're putting on our anchor now and what the new boat will do in different conditions.
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Old 17-10-2021, 14:29   #850
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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Out of curiosity, do you use a load cell to measure pulling force for your tests or do you have another way to calculate the value for your boat? Now I'm interested in figuring out the amount of force we're putting on our anchor now and what the new boat will do in different conditions.
Yes, some tests are done with a load cell during the pull.

Other tests use predetermined "bollard pull" force of the test boat at various engine r.p.m.


Steve
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Old 17-10-2021, 18:04   #851
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Skimming money to buy Cheerios? Scandalous!
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Old 23-10-2021, 10:52   #852
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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Old 13-11-2021, 11:34   #853
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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Old 29-12-2021, 11:47   #854
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Steve, Thank you. Have you seen these anchors advertized in CF
https://www.buegel-anker-gl-original...tandard-09-kg/
What do you think?


Also we find our Bruce 22 really likes more scope 6:1 to 8:1 usually (CF Post)
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Old 29-12-2021, 11:54   #855
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

I'm no authority on the matter, but I believe the Bugel was one of, if not the, first modern rollbar anchors. By most accounts I've found, it was a big step forward from the Bruce/CQR/Delta designs. I believe the Amel Super Maramu's and 54's were equipped with them from the factory. From everything I've read, while quite good, the Rocna design, and subsequently the Mantus etc. designs have surpassed it, mostly through thinner flukes and larger surface areas. I have not found any good comparison testing videos of a Bugel though, it would definitely be interesting to get one into Steve's hands and see how it performs in his standard test battery.
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