Using Too Big an Anchor ?

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Despite my own arguing against sheer weight in anchors, I do realize that aluminum anchors can be counterproductive in certain areas. For example, there are places in the Chesapeake where there is a jelly-like mud that defies penetration by large aluminum Fortress anchors. They have too much sail area compared to their weight and the anchor just floats on the surface of this jelly. If you try to back down on an anchor there you end up pulling it through the upper layers of this jelly where the holding is not good. You need a fairly dense and heavy anchor to slowly sink down through the jelly to where there is mud with some substance to provide holding. In places, like Spa Creek in Annapolis, I let my heaviest anchor sink overnight before backing down on it. You can get the same floating effect with lightweight anchors with lots of surface area trying to penetrate heavy weeds.

Kettle well,

Please make sure that you have the Mud Palms permanently installed on your Fortress anchor, as they will lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the sea bottom. The Mud Palms are included inside the box of every Fortress anchor, and they will definitely improve the setting performance in all bottom conditions.

Be safe,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

[michaelmrc]

lowride i use a 22lb bruce (made by lewmar) with 50ft of chain and 200ft of rode on my 27ft 7000lb boat. ive anchored in some pretty nasty conditions and have never dragged. most anchorages around vancouver island are muddy and very good holding.

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by Fortress

Kettle well,

Please make sure that you have the Mud Palms permanently installed on your Fortress anchor, as they will lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the sea bottom. The Mud Palms are included inside the box of every Fortress anchor, and they will definitely improve the setting performance in all bottom conditions.

Be safe,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

I have a FX-37 but with the mud palms the anchor doesn't fit in the bracket on the pulpit. I have considered a roller but haven't figured out how I want to do it yet.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Fortress

Nick,

If the Fortress anchor has been "power set"and is well buried into a sea bottom, then it is going to be difficult to break those two large flukes loose regardless of the wind direction.

That said, no anchor will dependably reset during a wind shift, so if you anticipate one, we recommend setting two anchors for maximum safety.

I found this animation which might be helpful in showing boaters how to set two anchors:

http://www.uspowerboating.com/anchor...wo_anchors.gif

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

One should be careful using that scheme! The force on the anchors/rodes is not divided by 2 but by the 1/2 force vector (direction and force of the wind) divided by the sin(angle) where angle is measured between an anchor rode and a straight line between the anchors.

That angle should not be less than 30 degrees which will apply the same force on each anchor as one anchor would see if only one was used.

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by FrankZ

I have a FX-37 but with the mud palms the anchor doesn't fit in the bracket on the pulpit. I have considered a roller but haven't figured out how I want to do it yet.

FrankZ,

Please contact Windline as they have started making adapter plates so that you can attach Fortress anchors to their rail mounts with the Mud Palms installed.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

[s/v Jedi]

I always find it difficult to discuss something when a representative of the manufacturer is participating, but I'll do it anyway

Like I stated before, I like the Fortress anchors we have and wouldn't want to cruise without them. However, I stand by my statement that they are not the right choice for the primary anchor for the reasons I stated before.

Setting two anchors like shown in the animation is in direct violation of my 99% rule which states: Use only 1 anchor in 99% of all situations. Using 2 anchors can get you in serious trouble. If your primary anchor doesn't hold your boat in 99% of all situations, you need a better or bigger primary anchor. The 1% is mostly when anchoring on tidal currents or during exceptional circumstances like hurricanes etc.

With our 25 metric tons displacement we have seen our FX-85 come loose during a 50 knot squall with a big windshift and days later again during a 60 knot squall. Our 80 kg (176 lb) original Bruce held us in place with 120 knot sustained winds incl. a 180 degree windshift after the eye of this storm passed. The Bruce was buried 10 foot deep in the sandy-clay seabed afterwards.

cheers,
Nick.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I always find it difficult to discuss something when a representative of the manufacturer is participating, but I'll do it anyway

Like I stated before, I like the Fortress anchors we have and wouldn't want to cruise without them. However, I stand by my statement that they are not the right choice for the primary anchor for the reasons I stated before.

Setting two anchors like shown in the animation is in direct violation of my 99% rule which states: Use only 1 anchor in 99% of all situations. Using 2 anchors can get you in serious trouble. If your primary anchor doesn't hold your boat in 99% of all situations, you need a better or bigger primary anchor. The 1% is mostly when anchoring on tidal currents or during exceptional circumstances like hurricanes etc.

With our 25 metric tons displacement we have seen our FX-85 come loose during a 50 knot squall with a big windshift and days later again during a 60 knot squall. Our 80 kg (176 lb) original Bruce held us in place with 120 knot sustained winds incl. a 180 degree windshift after the eye of this storm passed. The Bruce was buried 10 foot deep in the sandy-clay seabed afterwards.

cheers,
Nick.

While I agree with most of what you say...some of us anchor in situations (tidal creeks) where setting 2 anchors (bow and stern or Bahamian) is quite common and no big deal....While not necessary...it works and doesn't require rethinking of the primary ground tackle.

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by Fortress

FrankZ,

Please contact Windline as they have started making adapter plates so that you can attach Fortress anchors to their rail mounts with the Mud Palms installed.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

Do the adapter plates mount to the anchor? The picture on their site looks like that but it is hard to tell.

[Kashmir cat]

Originally Posted by Ram

I am very disapointed in my Aluminum Spade a-140 its just not heavy enough to penatrate most bottoms, I keep it as a back up , and it works well in soft sand & mud but thats about it , for me a waste of $900

Lucky you only paid $900.00 for it (or unlucky depending on how you look at it). That particular anchor retails for close to $1500.00 now. Crazy. Who would have guessed manufacturing costs ran that high in Tunisia. Only because of E-bay, Craig's list and West Marine clearing them out a few years ago, I was able to afford a Spade. I use a steel 140 Spade as my main anchor and an aluminum 140 Spade as the second. The advantage of the aluminum Spade as a second anchor to me is the ease of deployment by dinghy. I find that I use it a lot because it takes only a few minutes to deploy without having to move the boat. As for the S140, it seems the added weight and strength of the steel construction helps to resolve the limitations of its lighter twin.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by Kashmir cat

Lucky you only paid $900.00 for it (or unlucky depending on how you look at it). That particular anchor retails for close to $1500.00 now. Crazy. Who would have guessed manufacturing costs ran that high in Tunisia. Only because of E-bay, Craig's list and West Marine clearing them out a few years ago, I was able to afford a Spade. I use a steel 140 Spade as my main anchor and an aluminum 140 Spade as the second. The advantage of the aluminum Spade as a second anchor to me is the ease of deployment by dinghy. I find that I use it a lot because it takes only a few minutes to deploy without having to move the boat. As for the S140, it seems the added weight and strength of the steel construction helps to resolve the limitations of its lighter twin.

So what do you think of the a-140 has it had trouble setting? I think the shape of the budge on the bottom has something to do with it not setting along with it being too light- as for the price in Tunisia I dont beleave the people who build them are getting paid more, its likely the company wanting more profit

[Kashmir cat]

Originally Posted by Ram

So what do you think of the a-140 has it had trouble setting? I think the shape of the budge on the bottom has something to do with it not setting along with it being too light- as for the price in Tunisia I dont beleave the people who build them are getting paid more, its likely the company wanting more profit

I completely agree with your conclusion as pertaining to the a-140 as well as your perspective on the wages of the Tunisian worker. The latter probably having a lot to do with this winter's revolution, and the former being just a revolution in anchor design. I believe the reason for the popularity of the Rocna and Manson over the Spade is that they are much more reasonably priced. But this begs the question: Will the next people's revolt come from "Down Under"?

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Kashmir cat

I completely agree with your conclusion as pertaining to the a-140 as well as your perspective on the wages of the Tunisian worker. The latter probably having a lot to do with this winter's revolution, and the former being just a revolution in anchor design. I believe the reason for the popularity of the Rocna and Manson over the Spade is that they are much more reasonably priced. But this begs the question: Will the next people's revolt come from "Down Under"?

MMMM Lets have another beer and think about it.!!

[Bash]

Originally Posted by FrankZ

I have a FX-37 but with the mud palms the anchor doesn't fit in the bracket on the pulpit. I have considered a roller but haven't figured out how I want to do it yet.

I recommend you install it somewhere near the bow.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by psneeld

While I agree with most of what you say...some of us anchor in situations (tidal creeks) where setting 2 anchors (bow and stern or Bahamian) is quite common and no big deal....While not necessary...it works and doesn't require rethinking of the primary ground tackle.

Yes, I wrote that the 1% of situations that call for more than 1 anchor include tidal currents aka Bahamian moor. I'm not a big fan of fore and aft but do it now and then incl. the stern line to palm tree. I do it, but don't like it

cheers,
Nick.

[Kettlewell]

I think for some cruisers it is not just 1 anchor 99% of the time because of where they do their boating. It might be a good 50% of the time. Just for example, much of the Carolinas and Georgia, and many areas in the Bahamas have anchorages in creeks or tidal areas that have reversing currents all the time. Even in New England I find that in crowded harbors with the wind switching around all the time, frequently multiple times during the day, it is useful to put out a second anchor to keep myself away from everybody, even if I'm not worried about the primary dragging.