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Old 18-02-2011, 04:33   #121
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I always find it difficult to discuss something when a representative of the manufacturer is participating, but I'll do it anyway
Nick,

Understood, but I am not going to challenge the validity of your experience with the FX-85. Am I surprised? Yes, particularly since the US Coast Guard has used that anchor on their 87' patrol boat for a decade now, and I know from talking to the "coasties" that they beat the hell out of it.

I don't argue with success either. If your Bruce has given you dependable performance, then great. At the end of the day, your safety is what matters most.

Regards,
Brian

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Old 18-02-2011, 04:39   #122
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Do the adapter plates mount to the anchor? The picture on their site looks like that but it is hard to tell.
FrankZ,

Yes, their adapter plates bolt on to the Mud Palms, which then allow you to slide the Fortress into their rail mount.

Regards,
Brian

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Old 18-02-2011, 05:17   #123
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Understood, but I am not going to challenge the validity of your experience with the FX-85. Am I surprised? Yes, particularly since the US Coast Guard has used that anchor on their 87' patrol boat for a decade now, and I know from talking to the "coasties" that they beat the hell out of it.
Oh I believe that. The Fortress or Danforth anchors have the best holding of all. My statements are within the context of cruising which includes being at anchor for weeks or months at a time in any weather conditions during that period incl. 180 degree windshifts etc.

When I would set my FX-85 it can blow whatever crazy but it will hold. My only worry would be the anchor breaking apart, not breaking loose. This must be the experience of the USCG with it, but they don't live aboard so I don't think they use it the way cruisers do.

cheers,
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Old 18-02-2011, 05:43   #124
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Fine...you guys must think I'm a complete dolt. But I know better and after 40 years of boating, 23 years as a USCG helo pilot and 10 years as a Sea Tow captain...I think I know who the good and bad boaters are...

Unlike many sailors...I actually have my radio on to hear the approaching squall warnings...and after lots of hours of Navy meteorology...I usually can predict myself.
No one thinks your a dolt! Even if you roll your eyes! Your experience Boating for 40 years, 23 as Helo Pilot & 10 years as Sea Tow captain speaks for itself-but I might add not quite the same as long distance cursing with ever changing bottoms and sea/wind conditions-where you have to be 100% self sufficient with the anchor your sailing with Ė!
Iíve also been on the water 45 years, 10 years as a commercial Dive boat operator out of Lake Worth Inlet- 100 ton Masters license-dropping off divers and trying to find them again in all kinds of nasty stuff at times did not teach me much about anchoring- Even in all of the Abacos to points south ,Anchoring is very different-

I grew up in and live in the Hurricane belt-South Florida and I thought I knew it all about anchoring until I hit the Med 5 years ago-I found what I learned before was not quite the whole picture, even what my father taught me as a boy-he was USCG Jupiter Fl station for some year in the 60ss-and what I learned over all the years , some things did not work the way I thought they would- I believe itís best to use your best hook every time you drop it as you just never know what to expect, - when you leave the vessel and go ashore for what you think is a short time and it turns out to be longer, **** can hit the fan fast and if youíre not set up right your boats on the rocks- Seems Iím still learning about a lot of things, and I expect I will till the day I die, Iím open minded enough to hear you and all the other voices here and I appreciate what I have learned here from you and through others experiences , so I donít have to find out the hard way- Iím tired of the school of hard knocks, the school I was first in my class by the way!
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:20   #125
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I am very disapointed in my Aluminum Spade a-140 its just not heavy enough to penatrate most bottoms, I keep it as a back up , and it works well in soft sand & mud but thats about it , for me a waste of $900
I had the same experience with a Spade A-80. The consensus seems to be the steel spade is the way to go, if you want Spade.
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:24   #126
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snip ...I might add not quite the same as long distance cursing with ever changing bottoms and sea/wind conditions-where you have to be 100% self sufficient with the anchor your sailing with Ė! ...
snip
I've heard that a few times in anchorages. Usually when someone wants to anchor too close.
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:30   #127
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Aside from the ICW where any navigation with a draft over 4' is a gamble, I think SeaTow does not see the cruisers much. They mostly do not call for help and tend to gather in areas where there is no SeaTow nor squall warnings on VHF, the Wx channels are silent 24x7 etc.

The further one wanders from these resources, the more important gear like anchors become.

Many boats with (for cruising) undersized anchor gear, have an undersized windlass or even no windlass. They can't upgrade without also upgrading the rest of the anchoring system, which becomes a big and expensive task, but a necessary one.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 18-02-2011, 07:24   #128
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FrankZ,

Yes, their adapter plates bolt on to the Mud Palms, which then allow you to slide the Fortress into their rail mount.

Regards,
Brian

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How do they effect the performance of the anchor?
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Old 18-02-2011, 07:31   #129
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Good question, and when Windline was designing them, they sent us prototypes, which I showed to our chief engineer. He believed that their adapter plates would have no effect on performance.
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Old 18-02-2011, 10:37   #130
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Good question, and when Windline was designing them, they sent us prototypes, which I showed to our chief engineer. He believed that their adapter plates would have no effect on performance.
Believed but didn't test?
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Old 18-02-2011, 11:11   #131
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The adapter is a very simple thin metal plate that does not alter the basic design of the Mud Palm.
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Old 18-02-2011, 11:32   #132
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Originally Posted by Ram View Post
No one thinks your a dolt! Even if you roll your eyes! Your experience Boating for 40 years, 23 as Helo Pilot & 10 years as Sea Tow captain speaks for itself-but I might add not quite the same as long distance cursing with ever changing bottoms and sea/wind conditions-where you have to be 100% self sufficient with the anchor your sailing with Ė!
Iíve also been on the water 45 years, 10 years as a commercial Dive boat operator out of Lake Worth Inlet- 100 ton Masters license-dropping off divers and trying to find them again in all kinds of nasty stuff at times did not teach me much about anchoring- Even in all of the Abacos to points south ,Anchoring is very different-

I grew up in and live in the Hurricane belt-South Florida and I thought I knew it all about anchoring until I hit the Med 5 years ago-I found what I learned before was not quite the whole picture, even what my father taught me as a boy-he was USCG Jupiter Fl station for some year in the 60ss-and what I learned over all the years , some things did not work the way I thought they would- I believe itís best to use your best hook every time you drop it as you just never know what to expect, - when you leave the vessel and go ashore for what you think is a short time and it turns out to be longer, **** can hit the fan fast and if youíre not set up right your boats on the rocks- Seems Iím still learning about a lot of things, and I expect I will till the day I die, Iím open minded enough to hear you and all the other voices here and I appreciate what I have learned here from you and through others experiences , so I donít have to find out the hard way- Iím tired of the school of hard knocks, the school I was first in my class by the way!
I'd love to know where you or anyone else think you have more cruising experience than me to sound so authoritative?

I'll stand by my "lunch hook" discussion as well... every time you drop a hook for a few hours or days doesn't mean you have to have the "bruiser" down. Especially for people with no or limited windless/anchor retrieval systems.

It's only an opinion like everyone elses, so the OP can judge what we all say.
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Old 18-02-2011, 11:41   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Aside from the ICW where any navigation with a draft over 4' is a gamble, I think SeaTow does not see the cruisers much. They mostly do not call for help and tend to gather in areas where there is no SeaTow nor squall warnings on VHF, the Wx channels are silent 24x7 etc.

The further one wanders from these resources, the more important gear like anchors become.

Many boats with (for cruising) undersized anchor gear, have an undersized windlass or even no windlass. They can't upgrade without also upgrading the rest of the anchoring system, which becomes a big and expensive task, but a necessary one.

cheers,
Nick.
I have experience from Alaska to the Caribbean and most of the Eastern seaboard...a few places Sea Tow isn't and was cruising long before they existed or even reliable VHF.

I never said use "undersized" gear when it's appropriate to use long term gear (whenever getting back to the boat in less than an hour or so would be difficult or impossible)...I just think using "overkill" gear all the time is just that..."overkill".

So to the OP...no nothing wrong with "too big an anchor"...and it's true "is there really such a thing?"...just realize what is required for what....and there are a zillion variables in that concept.
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Old 18-02-2011, 11:46   #134
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I'd love to know where you or anyone else think you have more cruising experience than me to sound so authoritative?

I'll stand by my "lunch hook" discussion as well... every time you drop a hook for a few hours or days doesn't mean you have to have the "bruiser" down. Especially for people with no or limited windless/anchor retrieval systems.

It's only an opinion like everyone elses, so the OP can judge what we all say.
The beauty of this forum is we can all learn from each other.. if we take a moment..I never said I had more experience than you-- only different!
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Old 18-02-2011, 12:13   #135
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I don't think that the dual anchor system (30 degrees offset from the bow) is the solution to a 180 degree wind shift. This setup requires that both anchors successfully reset themselves in the event of a major shift, otherwise you're down to one anchor (hopefully your best one). This system would work better for a big blow from one direction (if you set it up correctly).

You could use a Bahamian moor, but what if the wind switches 90 degrees and begins to blow? Both anchors could well be compromised. This system is more for a reversing current in a narrow channel, with the anchors deployed upstream and downstream.

In the end, I agree with Nick. Put down a big anchor that can reset itself, and if it's really going to switch directions and blow stink, be ready to spring into action.
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