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Old 14-02-2022, 18:50   #1
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Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Old Catalina 30 with a 10kg rocna + 20ft chain + a couple hundred feet of nylon. On east coast of FL but expect to see action in the Bahamas and at least up to the Chesapeake, hopefully farther north.

The rocna has dragged on me once (sandy mud, 6:1) out of a handful of times out, but i am a noob so likely a technique/spot selection error. Still, I'm looking for better sleep and so plan to go up a size and add more chain.

Watched a buncha Steve's vids and am inclined toward the vulcan, but if someone has a vintage 10lb CQR they're looking to get rid of...

In all seriousness, readily available to me are 15k rocna, 12k,15k vulcan, and various deltas and claws. Worth goin for the 15k vulcan? Other ideas?
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Old 14-02-2022, 19:01   #2
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

100 feet of chain and use all of it for a good nights sleep.
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Old 14-02-2022, 19:24   #3
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

I agree, it is best to have all chain Rode. Your anchor does sound a little undersized. Maybe I am wrong about that what. Does rocna say?
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Old 14-02-2022, 21:37   #4
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Rocna has me square in the middle of their range.

The anchor locker on the cat 30 is kinda small and flimsy. Dunno if I can get away with monster amounts of chain...

That said, it sounds like you guys are saying more chain is better than a bigger anchor...
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Old 15-02-2022, 04:11   #5
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Always. It's the chain that holds you.
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Old 15-02-2022, 05:17   #6
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soopad00pa View Post
Rocna has me square in the middle of their range.

The anchor locker on the cat 30 is kinda small and flimsy. Dunno if I can get away with monster amounts of chain...

That said, it sounds like you guys are saying more chain is better than a bigger anchor...
No. Put the weight into the anchor, not the chain.

But don't upsize either to the point that you can't manage the ground tackle. Do you have a windlass?

If no windlass, than 15kg starts to get pretty -- athletic -- to handle. It will work a lot better than 10kg, but 10kg should be enough for a Catalina 30.

Chain is very good, but likewise, it is hard to handle a lot of chain without a windlass.

I would suggest a couple of possible approaches to this:

1. Add a windlass (if you don't already have one), then go up to 15kg and more chain (not necessarily 100 ft.), with octoplait spliced on to the end of the chain.

2. Don't add a windlass, but go up to 15kg if you are comfortable handling that. Add more chain, but not more than you can handle, and prioritize the anchor.

3. If not, then consider a better rather than heavier anchor. Rocna is a pretty good anchor (I had a 121 pound Rocna for a few years), but Spade will set much better and hold more reliably, especially in the smaller sizes. Costly but worth it.




Whichever way you go with the gear, be sure your technique is also up to snuff:

1. Be sure and SET the anchor. It will fairly often not set itself. Back down on it gently and for a long time, gradually increasing the force. If the anchor doesn't eventually hold a full power pull in reverse, it's not set. DIVE on the anchor and check the set, when you can. Do not be in such a hurry for your sundowner that you fail to spend enough time on this process. Properly setting the anchor often takes half an hour or more.

2. Be careful about the choice of bottom, and be careful about a sloping bottom. If you can't find a flat spot to put the anchor into, then anchor in the deepest spot in a cove, so that the slope is UP in every direction from where your anchor is. It's worth going to somewhat shorter scope if necessary to get this. Also the bottom itself is usually better at low points, as silt flows downhill.

3. Use appropriate scope. Count the height of the bow roller in your calculation. With a small Rocna you would normally want at least 5:1 except in deep water, and 6:1 is desirable (but much more than that is diminishing returns). In deep water with a very large (186 pounds) Spade, we go as little as 2.5:1, but that is a special case.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
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Old 15-02-2022, 05:27   #7
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

I agree with dockhead, the anchor is more important than the chain. However use as much chain as is practical for your setup . Spade is the best (in my opinion) especially resetting in a reversing current or sudden wind shift.
If you don't have a windlass, look at their aluminum version. I had one on our lake boat, and it made hand retrieval easy, without sacrificing holding power.
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Old 15-02-2022, 05:30   #8
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

What about rigging a kellet onto the rode. Especially if using little chain to improve the catenary effect.

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Old 15-02-2022, 05:30   #9
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris mac View Post
I agree with dockhead, the anchor is more important than the chain. However use as much chain as is practical for your setup . Spade is the best (in my opinion) especially resetting in a reversing current or sudden wind shift.
If you don't have a windlass, look at their aluminum version. I had one on our lake boat, and it made hand retrieval easy, without sacrificing holding power.

Good suggestion about the alu Spade.


Spade is much better for this application, because it has a sharp fluke which is much easier to get into the sea bed, and because it has lead ballast which balances it. Much easier to handle especially without a windlass, and much easier to set. Good balance helps it to reset in case it pulls out for some reason.



If weight is critical because you're not using a windlass, an alu Spade in a larger size but still manageable weight might really be a good compromise.
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Old 15-02-2022, 05:55   #10
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flee27 View Post
What about rigging a kellet onto the rode. Especially if using little chain to improve the catenary effect.

Foster
Kellets need to be really heavy to have any kind of effect. You're better off putting that weight in chain, it has exactly the same effect, and is much easier to deploy.

EDIT: See article here for the reasoning (behind a paywall, sorry): https://www.morganscloud.com/2020/01...oring-kellets/
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Old 15-02-2022, 05:58   #11
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soopad00pa View Post
Rocna has me square in the middle of their range.

The anchor locker on the cat 30 is kinda small and flimsy. Dunno if I can get away with monster amounts of chain...

That said, it sounds like you guys are saying more chain is better than a bigger anchor...

I bought a 15kg Rocna for my 30 feet boat but if it had come with a 10kg I doubt I would have upgraded it.
The extra weight should be in the anchor if you do decide to upgrade.
When I picked the Rocna I decided between Rocna and Spade. Today I would also consider Mantus M1.
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Old 15-02-2022, 06:04   #12
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

The Rocna fitment guide recommends a 15 kg anchor (or 12 Kg Vulcan). You might start looking at alloy options. I think you should have 60 ft of chain as a minimum, but if you do add a windlass, you should consider going all-chain.
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Old 15-02-2022, 06:08   #13
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Depends on your budget of course. Ideal would be 15Kg Rocna/Mantus etc and 100 ft of 8mm chain. In Bahamas/ Chesapeake Assuming you are going to anchor in at least 6ft of water, add 4 ft to the bow so 10ft - standard rode * 5 = 50 ft, for bad weather 7 * = 70ft - anchor in 10ft and you will need 14*5 = 70ft and 14*7 = 98ft. I think the Rocna sizing guide assumes an all chain rode. The Bahamas see many boats washed ashore when the wind swings violently from south through west to NW, you really want a good anchor for these places, particularly with some weedy or limestone strewn bottoms. In the Chesapeake and points south, you will get strong winds too, but also stronger currents with the bottom usually very sticky mud, so quite often wind against tide with the boat sailing over the anchor, so it needs to reset quickly. The Vulcan was really a compromise design for power boats with anchor roller fitment issues, whilst a good anchor it seems not as well regarded as the Rocna with hoop. The above are generalizations, but it is what I would do - been anchoring 40ft+ cruising boats for last 20 years using CQR, Delta, Rockna and terrible danforth. Last 2 boats have had Rocnas. We have managed to drag a Rocna in poor holding areas in the Bahamas and once in Fishing Bay in the Chesapeake, so it is not just the anchor that counts.
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Old 15-02-2022, 06:13   #14
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

Size the anchor for holding. Adjust the amount of chain based on chafe resistance requirements of your cruising grounds. And use the lightest chain that's strong enough, as that lets you carry more before the total weight becomes a problem.

If you're hand hauling (or can find a windlass that'll pull it), I'd use 1/4" chain. G43 or G70 will be fine for your boat strength wise. Heading to the Bahamas, I'd probably want 100 feet of chain. Assuming a bow roller 4 feet off the water, that'll be enough to let you anchor in 19 feet of water when bottom chafe is a concern at 5:1 scope (with 15 feet of rope out beyond the chain, but that wouldn't get within a few feet of the bottom as it's 23 feet from the roller to the bottom).

The Spade will work fine, but if you're not going for the aluminum version, just go for the Vulcan. It performs a little better than the Spade in some of the SV Panope tests, it's a bit more durable in construction, and it's also significantly cheaper. The 15kg / 33 lb size would be a good "definitely big enough" size for that boat, I think. The 12kg / 27 lb should also be sufficient.
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Old 15-02-2022, 06:24   #15
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Re: Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

you may like to read on chain vs nylon the latest articles, and ratios, there had been recent reviews and research showing our long held beliefs on the value of all chain because of the catenary effect may not be correct?
Just saying.
if cruising coral areas then chain takes precedent to avoid chafe.
I am all chain and would consider
going half chain, but the configuration of my chain locker will make a problem to retrieve a combination.
I am sold on the concept of combination because of the nylon ability to soften the impact when strain/shock under strain.
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