Untangling Anchor Rodes

[Panope]

Assume two anchors from the bow of the boat, each with its own rode. Boat swings in circle or two and rodes become twisted together making retrieval difficult.

Question - Is it possible to untangle rodes by motoring vessel in an opposite direction circle?

If not, what is the best recourse?

I am of the "one big anchor mindset" and I have never anchored in this (two at a time) fashion but might choose to at some point.

Thanks, Steve

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by Panope

Assume two anchors from the bow of the boat, each with its own rode. Boat swings in circle or two and rodes become twisted together making retrieval difficult.

Question - Is it possible to untangle rodes by motoring vessel in an opposite direction circle?

If not, what is the best recourse?

I am of the "one big anchor mindset" and I have never anchored in this (two at a time) fashion but might choose to at some point.

Thanks, Steve

Yes, it is possible. Usually you will have 2 anchors out because it is windy or you expect a change in wind direction or you are worried about swinging room. In the former case, it can be difficult sometimes to unwind the tangle by doing circles.

We find it easier to undo the bitter end of the second anchor and unwind it from the other rode. It is a pain though.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Panope

Assume two anchors from the bow of the boat, each with its own rode. Boat swings in circle or two and rodes become twisted together making retrieval difficult.

Here's the rule: if you spend the night on two bow anchors, each with its own rode, the rodes will end up twisted together "making retrieval difficult" 99 out of every 100 times you attempt this lunacy.

Don't do it. It's that simple.

[Andrew Troup]

The gold standard for anchoring expedition yachts (which are sometimes left unattended while the crew go off climbing or otherwise communing with nature) is to set three decent anchors (Danforth or Fortress work well if the bottom is suitable) at roughly equal (ie 120 degree) angles.

The platinum/palladium standard is to join the three chain rodes at a heavy swivel (such as a trawler might deploy), and have a single strong chain pendant from that swivel up to the boat. There'll be chain left over at the end of one or more rodes; this can be bundled up and hung under the swivel; the weight is all to the good.

Naturally this is a lot of work and not viable for a 'normal' cruiser (unless preparing for, say, a hurricane whose eye might pass over the anchorage), but it's a salutary exemplar of aspects of best practice.

Don't do what some friends of my sister's did once in the Med. They had three anchors down, two on all chain and one on a mixed rode. They were anchored in one of those volcanic calderas, and winds were strong and multi-directional.

After a day and a night of random madness, the rodes were comprehensively knitted and it took hours and considerable effort to uncouple everything and disentangle the mess (they possibly wished they'd set up something closer to the platinum standard!)

Eventually everything was straightened out and stowed away, leaving them just time to sail to the next island where they hoped for a quiet night.

When they reached their destination, just on dusk, it was idyllic; the wind had dropped to almost nothing and the skies were clearing. They had it to themselves, so they thought they'd put out all the scope. They stood, mesmerised despite their exhaustion as the chain arrowed purposefully out of the navel pipe and snaked noisily across the foredeck to plummet into the depths.

Then suddenly, the end of the chain followed the rest overboard. Silence reigned.

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by Bash

Here's the rule: if you spend the night on two bow anchors, each with its own rode, the rodes will end up twisted together "making retrieval difficult" 99 out of every 100 times you attempt this lunacy.

Don't do it. It's that simple.

You never put 2 anchors out from the bow, Bash?

For the last 7 weeks we have had 3 anchors out, off the bow. 1 tangle in all that time. Due to physics, the mostly SE winds here and the tide going back and forth every 6 hours in a stretch of river that runs ENE - WSW. So the sterns of the boat have swung to the south only once during the last 168 tide changes. The other 167 times the sterns swung to the north due to the wind. Very nice, keeps us in a very tight area.

Bash is right, try not to do it. Normally the rodes tangle. But, assuming you do, just untangle it with the bitter end.

That was your question, right?

[Andrew Troup]

The advice never to do it is, like almost all absolutist or dogmatic statements, conditional on circumstances.

On small boats with light gear (and especially if the anchors are small or low-performance in relation to what's going to be expected of them) it would be foolish to take heed of this advice.
You do the best with what you have - and on lightweight yachts, carrying heavy gear is not necessarily a safety enhancement.

Furthermore it's a trivial exercise to untangle lightweight gear -- and there's certainly no way you'll have to do this 99 times/100

On my first sailboat we routinely used two anchors to provide sufficient security in strong winds, greatly reduce the tendency to sail to and fro, and only tangled them if the winds were rotary; often we could completely prevent even this because many such locations saw us backed up to a wooded cove, which meant we could use one or more shorelines from the stern to keep us facing the anchors.

On a big, deep draft boat with a heavy and highly adequate single-anchor system, well suited to the bottom, it's great advice almost all the time.

[SimonV]

I have never anchored with two separate anchors straight from the bow, and I can see it causing all sorts of grief. I have anchored with bow and stern anchors and also from the bow with two anchors in tandem. I still think you need to keep it simple if there is a posibility that your anchors will tangle up then it means they cant work properly and you cant leave in a hurry.

[Kettlewell]

I do it a lot. My main anchor is on all chain, that gets set first. My secondary anchor is on mostly rope, that gets set second. I store the rode for the second anchor in a sail bag. If the rodes twist up I just pass the sailbag around the chain once or twice a day. Takes 2 minutes if you fumble a lot.

[zeehag]

i rode out 1998 el nino winter in san diego's a-9 anchorage formerly known cruisers anchorage, by setting 2 anchors off my bow at 90 degree angle from bow, and one slightly longer than other--didnt run in circles, as did everyone else, and i stuck like a truck all storm season, and it was a heavy one---from south winds brought 3 ft seas into that anchorage, and when turns to nw, thankgawds they flatten nicely, if you survive the southern frontal attack...before i set these anchors as i did, i swung full 360 every 24 hours. that was not my formosa in that instance--was a light day sailor boat, fin/skeg configuration. a cal.
here i do fine on 1 original bruce set with all chain.
when folks i know did the tangle thing, they had a diver go down to untangle it, or they dove the rode themselves and untangled it--freeing it from the deck of the boat, first.

[Panope]

Thanks for all the responses.

It sounds like "motoring in a circle" to untangle is not very common. Is this because the tangle is more than just a simple helix?

Is there fear of fouling the propeller?

Does the tangle occur below the surface - making it difficult to see what to do?

For these questions assume just an overnight or two on the hooks - so not to many wraps.

I like Kettlewell's procedure. Unfortunately, my number 2 rode is a 80 feet of chain and a ton of nylon that passes through a hawse port in the deck and then a hawse pipe through the hull. Not possible to bag.

Steve

[Group9]

Originally Posted by SimonV

I have never anchored with two separate anchors straight from the bow, and I can see it causing all sorts of grief. I have anchored with bow and stern anchors and also from the bow with two anchors in tandem. I still think you need to keep it simple if there is a posibility that your anchors will tangle up then it means they cant work properly and you cant leave in a hurry.

I'm glad you never had to ride a hurricane out at anchor. I've had to do it a couple of times, and multiple anchors from the bow was the way I did it.

[Kettlewell]

I prefer to keep the #2 anchor and its rode (mostly nylon) free to deploy from whatever location makes most sense. Having it set up at the bow like the main anchor just limits your options too much. For example, I've used it off the stern in a Med moor when going in bow first. Frequently, the best way to set it is to take it out in the dinghy, and for that you need mostly nylon. I find 150-200 feet on the #2 is fine in most circumstances, but I splice in an eye and thimble in both ends of the line so I can quickly add another 200 or more if I need it.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I prefer to keep the #2 anchor and its rode (mostly nylon) free to deploy from whatever location makes most sense. Having it set up at the bow like the main anchor just limits your options too much. For example, I've used it off the stern in a Med moor when going in bow first. Frequently, the best way to set it is to take it out in the dinghy, and for that you need mostly nylon. I find 150-200 feet on the #2 is fine in most circumstances, but I splice in an eye and thimble in both ends of the line so I can quickly add another 200 or more if I need it.

I understand. I guess I should treat my two bow anchors has primary #1 (45lb) and primary #2 (65lb). Probably better to use the #3 or #4 anchors as you do as they are light and row-able.

Let me explain that I am not a complete "anchor wacko". I needed to add ballast forward to offset the removal of a very heavy bowsprit and the addition of an aft pilot house. Rather than just add "dead" weight, I chose to add another heavy anchor system. Also, I rather enjoyed the challenge of building the traditional hawse pipe. The "doughnut" was hogged out from a chunk of 1 1/4" Plate. Lot's of fun.

Steve

[Kettlewell]

In your situation I doubt you routinely use both of those big ones at the same time. I would think that you use one or the other depending on the bottom, and maybe drop #2 at a 45-degree angle if for some reason you feel you need greater holding. I have seen and tried pushing the boat around in circles with the dinghy, but it doesn't work well unless it is pretty calm out.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Panope

I am of the "one big anchor mindset" and I have never anchored in this (two at a time) fashion but might choose to at some point.

Thanks, Steve

Why do something that in an emergency can kill you and/sink your boat?

If you need to pull them up to get the hell out of a lee shore wind reversal at nit in torrential rain, you are going to do it when you full well know your tackle could be tangled?

So you cut away both anchors then what do you do? Find some handy marina?

I am firmly in the group that use one anchor in any, or Maoist any, conditions